whelping, strasnge temp fluctuations

whelping, strasnge temp fluctuations

birdieva2002

Posts: 7

QUOTE 10/11/2010 9:52:03 AM
My dam is 61 days pregnant.  Her temperature has been fluctuated between 99.3-100.2.  I know the normal range for a non pregnant dog is 100.5-102 Im concerned because her temperature has been fluctuated like this for two days and she has not started labor.  Other than her weird temps she seems to be acting normally she is still eating some and does not seem to be in any discomfort.  I'm thinking of having her get checked out to make sure everything's alright by the vet anyways, but I was wondering if this may be normal for a dog a few days prior to labor?  I know when it drops 98-97 labor will happen within 12-24 hours. 
leemct

Posts: 23

QUOTE 10/11/2010 12:13:12 PM
I would take her to the vet today. A normal temp for a dog is 101.5 to 102.5 The temp dose drop prior to whelping. She may have dead puppies which would cause her not to go in to full labor. The fact that she is not acting sick at this time may be because she has yet to go toxic.  



It would be better to be safe than sorry
birdieva2002

Posts: 7

QUOTE 10/12/2010 7:54:18 AM
I can feel her puppies moving around still, although they don't move around as much but I think thats because they feel like they have gotten a lot bigger in the last week and are running out of wriggle room.  Unless she has a hidden forth puppy that died somewhere I don't think her going toxic is the problem.  Dogs drop two degrees from their normal temperature when going into labor, my dog's normal temp was around 101 prior to getting pregnant.  I have read that it is normal for a dog's temperature to linger around 100 near the end of the pregnancy, I asked the question to find out if this was true or not.  Ive read some sites saying a drop of 99 means something is going on other places like on the AKC website say its normal nearing labor and can go on for 36 hours.  Im just wondering what other people's experience with reading temperatures around this time is.  Yes I do agree its better to be safe than sorry.
winddial

Posts: 52

QUOTE 10/12/2010 5:39:29 PM
I don't guess either of you have whelped very many litters?  It is VERY normal for temps to fluctuate between 99.1 and up to the normal 102 range on even a normal healthy dog thats not pregnant but even more so on one that is. I start taking my girls temps twice a day about a week before and even more often the closer they get to their due dates and let me tell you they actually get more sporadic the closer they get. The fluctuation is influenced by a variety of factors that have to do with resting or recent activity such as going outside to potty.  It does seem as the last week counts down, it is tends to rest in the 99 range but will certainly go up into the typical normal range if she's been active in the past hour. 



I have whelped many litters over the years and have never had anything negative result from this type of temperature fluctuating.  But, once it drops to below the 99.0 mark, get ready for puppies.  Usually it gets down to 98.xx but have had them whelp with no temp drop at all.

leemct

Posts: 23

QUOTE 10/12/2010 9:06:37 PM
actually I have breed dogs for over 30 years  I have bred and owned 23 Champions including Canadian , American and International . I would rather have a person check out her female before complications occurs rather than have her wait .  I have seen novices wait because they did not see signs of  labor and loose their bitch and puppies.  Certian breed are more likely to require a C section and even breeds who usually do not have complications can. I had a customer with a German Shep that had a C Section for 1 puppy .  I had a bitch myself that went into eclampsia prior to going into labor. If I had not recognized the symptoms and got her to the vet she would have died .
winddial

Posts: 52

QUOTE 10/13/2010 1:10:29 AM
Of course, when in doubt go to the vet but, I don't think it's necessary to make some one think their bitch is "probably" going toxic because of a fluctuating 99 degree range temp on a 61 day bred female.  Thats about as normal as it gets at least on my dogs.  Whelping issues abound in my breed and they are very closely monitored.  In my breed a singleton is a guaranteed c-section and 3 or less is about 80% chance.  Then there are random issues for about any sized litter, I have never lost a girl and have a high survival rate in newborns despite the issues.  From what information was given, panic mode is not necessary, a check up for peace of mind maybe. 

leemct

Posts: 23

QUOTE 10/14/2010 12:49:05 PM
Let us know how the litter is doing. I was not trying to alarm you but it appears you are a novice. You said the initial drop in temp (down to 99) occured 48 hrs earlier.  The only person wo can tell you what is going on with your bitch is your Vet.  That is why I sugested that you have her checked out .



There is a very good book called Caninie Reproduction A breeders guide by Phyllis A Holst MS D

I will quote from her book page 142 Signs of Trouble "First- stage labor , the period of cervical diation is prolonged. It probably begins at the time of the temperature drop. If labor has not begun within 30 hrs of the temperature drop, the bitch should be examined by your veterinarian "



She also states under  Criteria For Dystocia

"A call to the veterianrian is indicated when :

 1 ) More than 24 hours have passed since the temperature drop without signs of second state labor (thirty hours maximum).



By now your bitch should have had her puppies . Hopefully all went well
birdieva2002

Posts: 7

QUOTE 10/15/2010 9:56:57 AM
I did take my dam to get checked out after the first post.  The vet wasn't concerned with her temperature too much she said it wasn't dangerous for her to be around 99 she was 99.7 when the vet took her temp.  I had some x-rays done and everything looked normal did some blood work because her gums are a little pale and I know she doesnt have fleas so that was a little odd.

  She had her litter yesterday, there was a stillborn that came out first but she didn't have any problems pushing it out and the three behind it are all healthy and nursing.  I'm going to make another appointment so the vet can give her the Oxytocin shot Im hoping it helps with her milk production.  She has a few nipples that aren't flowing as well as others.  Im a little concerned about the smallest puppy too it needs help getting on a nipple and whines a lot.  Might need to supplement feedings for that puppy.
leemct

Posts: 23

QUOTE 10/15/2010 10:20:48 AM
Very happy that your litter has arrived .  Make sure your keep the room temperature at about 80 degrees. Puppies have no way of regulating their temperature for about  weeks. If they are too hot or too cold they can die. I keep my nursery at 80 degrees 24/7 when I have very young puppies  



If you have not already taken you female for the shot you might want to take the puppies also . He can check the little one over. If she has for instance a respiratory problem he may be able give her some antibiotics or  poss. fluids if she is dehydrated .

beaglebrat

Posts: 1370

QUOTE 10/16/2010 1:33:38 AM
Temperature is NOT a fool proof indication of labor.  In the last 14 years, I have had whelped more than 100 litters and have NEVER LOST A BITCH YET.  It is normal for some bitches to even go down to 98 degrees and back up to 100 for days.  Don't rely on temperature alone.  As in the birth we are talking about right now, it can be normal.



I remember when I went to birthing class for my first child.  The teaching midwife said "every birth is different"-- that is something that applies to dogs too.  Unless the dog is over-due or shows other symptoms of distress, fluctuating low temps are usually normal.



Now, if she is pushing, or has discharge, that is a different thing.  I would actually be more concerned with an elevated temperature because THAT would mean it there is a raging infection going on.





leemct

Posts: 23

QUOTE 10/16/2010 8:41:31 PM
Yes temp is not always the indicator but is usually the first signs that labor will begin within 24 hrs .  . The poster appears to be a novice, we don't even know what breed she has.  I would rather see her have the mom checked out by a vet than have her wait and have complications. The first puppy was dead . Fortunately she did deliver that one on her own .  BTW (to the original poster )  an excellent book to have on hand  is the Dog's Home Veterinary Handbook by James Giffin MD and Liisa Carlson DVM published by Howell. It has a very good chapter on breeding , whelping and care of puppies along with just about any medical problem a dog can have  and emergency care of dogs . It is very easy to understand

 When I do an outside stud service I recommend this book .
winddial

Posts: 52

QUOTE 10/17/2010 3:45:00 PM
I also have that book in my doggy library. Our vet got to intern with Carlson and Griffin during school. 



My last whelping did not have a temp drop, 100.xx all the way up to whelping.  Mine usually do but I've others that didn't either. 

birdieva2002

Posts: 7

QUOTE 10/17/2010 6:47:09 PM
Thanks for all the advice.  The runt is nursing well and catching up and the biggest one has gotten a lot bigger he never stops nursing.  Im concerned about the middle sized one.  Im not sure if anything is wrong or not, when I took my dam to the vet I also brought the pups.  The middle one looked a bit skinny as compared to the other two despite the runt being very small.  I wasn't too concern  at the time because the middle one was nursing well and gaining weight.  I noticed he doesnt nurse as frequently as the other two today, he has gained some weight from this morning so I know he must be nursing.  He still twitches when hes sleeping and he doesnt cry out or anything.  Mom hasnt shunned him, and he sleeps with the other two.  I keep the room around 79-80 and have a very low setting heating pad made for dogs on one side of the whelping pen.  They dont huddle or anything so I don't think they are chilled.  The middle one sleeps when the other two are nursing and the others nurse with a lot of energy this puppy just doesnt seem interested as much.  Im not sure if Im being overly concerned, I just know early detection is important in newborn pups.  Maybe Im just messing with them too much and hes not getting enough sleep?
leemct

Posts: 23

QUOTE 10/17/2010 8:21:23 PM
Weigh you puppies daily. If the middle guy starts to loose weight that could be a sign of trouble. Twitching is normal. If any of the pups start crying alot . Not just when they wake up and are hungry. That is also cause for concern . Also make sure you check their bottoms. Some females are not great at cleaning there and if fecal gets stuck it can cause problems. Use cotton balls and warm water.  Word of warning he will probably poop and pee on you. This is how mom gets them to go for the 1st week or so. You also have to do this if hand raising . BTW what kind of dogs do you have ?   
birdieva2002

Posts: 7

QUOTE 10/18/2010 12:59:11 PM
Middle guy is not losing any weight I have been weighing them since birth and since I was concerned, Im now weighing them in the morning and at night.  Middle guy started off at 130 grams and now he's 197 grams.  Middle guy is just different from the other two, hes colored different as well Im thinking maybe hes just that way.  The other two fight over nipples and pull and tug.  This guy kind of wanders over there after the other two are done and is not really aggressive with it at all, he often falls asleep with the nipple in his mouth, he's a blue merle like his dad maybe he takes after him in personality.  I know activated sleeping is a sign of good health I think I might be worrying too much.



This is my dog's second litter she had the first one way premature so Ive just been very worried and want all these puppies to be healthy.  She had her last litter around day 45 before I even started taking her temp.  She showed no signs of labor that day she broke her water sitting on my husband then simply laid down and shot them out literally it happened so fast.  We were horrified, her vet could never determine why this happened she had been seen by him twice before the preemies and seen again after this happened.  Neither of the two puppies survived, the stronger one lived almost three days we were tube feeding.  It was really sad, my male dog's breeder said in her 15 yrs of experience she has never had a preemie puppy...of course she said she has never lost a puppy either Im a little skeptical, she must be really good to not lose one in 15 yrs.  After our loss she doesn't correspond with me anymore and is unaware of this litter.  Im always unsure of telling people about our preemie litter because people who dont know us often assume it must have been our fault because it is a rare occurence in dogs.  My dog was fed very well while she was pregnant actually better the first time than this time I was giving her cottage cheese and yogurt the first time along with her puppy food and some canned food at night.  This time I tried not to change anything but switching her to puppy food and keeping things calm. I kind of think she was too stressed last time we had just moved into our new house and we were moving furniture around and it was right before my husband got deployed so there was a lot of tension.



My dogs are shelties, this breed usually doesnt have trouble giving birth but my dog seems to have complications so after the pups are weaned she is going to be spayed.  When I was a kid I used to help my neighbor a lot who was a sheltie breeder, I don't remember her ever losing a puppy but she did have one once born with three legs.  She only bred her dog for three seasons she saw the pup with the legs as a sign to stop.  My dog is pretty good at keeping the puppies clean, the only issue I have with her is she is very attatched to me and doesnt like it when I leave her alone.  Nine out of ten times when I hear the puppies screaming Ill find her out of the pen and have to go put her back in.   Ive learned in the past two days that if I want to get any sleep I have to move mom and pups to my room next to my bed and even then sometimes I find her trying to leave the box.  

Another question I have is when counting how old the puppies are do you count the day they were born?  I know puppy loss can occur at any time but in the beginning when are the puppies out of the critical phase?  Ive discovered its hard to find good reliable information on whelping over the internet theres only a handfull of sites.  Alot of the sites contradict one another too.  Some say keep the room at 75 for the dam's comfort and she will keep the pups warm.  Others say keep it warm 85-90.  So Ive been keeping it at 80, and it seems to be alright.  I even found one site saying as low as 72 is alright Im cold at 72 so Im pretty sure thats not safe even if mom stayed in the pen.  

Anyways, ive made this long enough I just have a lot of questions.   

john1212

Posts: 1

QUOTE 11/17/2010 1:58:14 AM
i got an idea   take a 12 gauge shotgun and blow its head off  thats wat i do every chance i get   y does every person in the us think they need 4 dogs  they wont give any money to save the children but they will spend it all on a stupid dog  ,  how sick is that  you all should be ashamed of your self
24tracey

Posts: 14

QUOTE 11/17/2010 9:33:30 AM
John1212,

I dont know why you are on this site...this is for animal lovers and advice for expecting moms....If you are so worried about the children, why dont you get off of this website and make yourself useful by helping some kids !!!!

Didnt your mom ever tell you that if you dont have anything nice to say, keep your flap shut !!!!!
kathystone

Posts: 396

QUOTE 11/17/2010 1:28:19 PM
 Congratulations on your new family! Please understand that there are people out there who are very cruel and ill informed, like John. He is probalby a member of HSUS, PETA and the Sierra CLub. He drives a "beemer" with it's leather seats and lives in a house made of wood with fine wooden furniture. He is probably NOT qualified to own one of your dogs as he is so narrow and ignorant that he would not qualify.
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