MORE spay neuter statistics

MORE spay neuter statistics

rescuewench

Posts: 7081

QUOTE 7/28/2007 11:40:11 AM

Quote cannonfarms:

almighty Rw, please give me your OP on neutering this little guy when he gets his leg removed, the funds dont cover it, but i have some people still offering little donations and if they are enough i would like to go ahead and get it done.
With all your years as a vet tech and in the rescue biz i would really apreciate if you would give me your guidance please.
yeah get it done.. why put teh kitty under 2x? besides a neuter is done in minutes - thatleg will take a long time.

i say do it.

JMHO
rescuewench

Posts: 7081

QUOTE 7/28/2007 11:43:58 AM
bowser was startingto post links.

i also think pen is bowwow incognito
miarob

Posts: 1399

QUOTE 7/28/2007 11:55:21 AM

Quote rescuewench:

bowser was startingto post links.

i also think pen is bowwow incognito
Bowser no longer has freedom of speech on this forum, way to much editing, apparently we are all so impressionable we need to be spared by someone much wiser.
zoesmum

Posts: 286

QUOTE 7/28/2007 12:31:36 PM
RW - so sorry for hijacking your thread!

I just got so caught up in the ridiculous arguments of some other people!

I really did want to discuss your thoughts on early spay and neuter ... but it is a little late in this one - cuz like you said, all the good info would be on page 20!!

Oh Mia ... , I just wanted to note. Clearly Boswer gets edited because the comments are in breach of the conditions of this forum - if he/she didn't want to get edited, they would just follow some simple rules - like don't be a jerk for no reason - simple!
cannonfarms

Posts: 3143

QUOTE 7/28/2007 1:33:16 PM
actually being a jerk or b!t(# is all he fun..lol..
Bowser was just repetivly anoying and didnt want to listed but rather arguing, something i can be good at too.
zoesmum

Posts: 286

QUOTE 7/28/2007 1:39:41 PM

Quote cannonfarms:

actually being a jerk or b!t(# is all he fun..lol..
Bowser was just repetivly anoying and didnt want to listed but rather arguing, something i can be good at too.
I'm always up for a good fight ... but not unless it is something I am passionate about. Seems stupid to waste my energy on fighting for the sake of fighting ...

Maybe they should just let some of Bowser's stuff through ... then we could ignore it and it wouldn't be fun anymore ...

Who knows!
miarob

Posts: 1399

QUOTE 7/28/2007 2:57:45 PM

Quote zoesmum:

I'm always up for a good fight ... but not unless it is something I am passionate about. Seems stupid to waste my energy on fighting for the sake of fighting ...

Maybe they should just let some of Bowser's stuff through ... then we could ignore it and it wouldn't be fun anymore ...

Who knows!
It's not the fight I'm looking for and it's not Bowsers tactics I'm defending I'm just questioning the constant censorship that goes on with her posts. There is no rule that says you have to post links, there should be but there isn't. She has every right to post whatever she wants if it is within forum rules, don't like what she posts skip it! Why do we need one particular Mod to decide what is 'fit' for the rest of us to read? This is an open public forum not Nazi Germany.

JMO!
zoesmum

Posts: 286

QUOTE 7/28/2007 3:09:25 PM

Quote miarob:

It's not the fight I'm looking for and it's not Bowsers tactics I'm defending I'm just questioning the constant censorship that goes on with her posts. There is no rule that says you have to post links, there should be but there isn't. She has every right to post whatever she wants if it is within forum rules, don't like what she posts skip it! Why do we need one particular Mod to decide what is 'fit' for the rest of us to read? This is an open public forum not Nazi Germany.

JMO!
I suppose I am just assuming that the mods are making appropriate decisions - who knows what is being said. Maybe they should let everything Bowser says get through, and like you said, ignore it if you don't like it.

I was in implying in any way that we should exist like Nazi Germany did ... but, as I am sure you know from reading many posts - some people are just being dumb. I want to learn and discuss on this site - not be told that whatever I am saying is stupid ... (I know you weren't saying that - I am just trying to make a point).

Discussing is fun - fighting and making other people feel stupid is not.

I do usually learn things from your posts, and some of the ones that have gotten through from Bowser have been helpful ...

I would hate to be a mod ...
rescuewench

Posts: 7081

QUOTE 7/28/2007 4:19:40 PM

Quote zoesmum:

RW - so sorry for hijacking your thread!

I just got so caught up in the ridiculous arguments of some other people!

I really did want to discuss your thoughts on early spay and neuter ... but it is a little late in this one - cuz like you said, all the good info would be on page 20!!

Oh Mia ... , I just wanted to note. Clearly Boswer gets edited because the comments are in breach of the conditions of this forum - if he/she didn't want to get edited, they would just follow some simple rules - like don't be a jerk for no reason - simple!
dont woory

quote"I really did want to discuss your thoughts on early spay and neuter ... but it is a little late in this one - cuz like you said, all the good info would be on page 20!!"

do you want to discuss something? you can start a new thread i guess - ?

I think bowser started just going ( cant think of a word) "nuts?" is why she started to moderated all the time.



but she is back under a different name - that is VERY apparent, and wil entertain us a bit longer.

goldengal

Posts: 832

QUOTE 7/28/2007 4:39:56 PM
oh what fun.

I know i shouldn't post on some of these things, but it is just to much fun. I can go through the posts and nearly wet myself from laughing.
zoesmum

Posts: 286

QUOTE 7/28/2007 5:34:33 PM

Quote penkitten:

above in my posts i said "i think"
because that is what i think and it is my opinion. it is a statement that i made because of my opinion on it. thats all. there is no need to flame me for having an opinion.

in my opinion, i am not the one who is unwilling to listen to any one else's point of view.

i am new to this forum, however, i already see that on this forum, if you have an opinion that is not the same as RESCUEWENCH then she belittles you. no matter what you say in your own defense, she tries to choke her beliefs down your throat and when you stand up for yourself by saying "its just my opinion, you can do whatever you please with your own animal, then other members, such as yourself, decide that i am the one that caused the flaming in the first place.

however to be fair, i did look up the pros and cons of pets having an all raw diet and that cats are prone to getting toxoplasmosis by raw meat.http://www.listnow.com/helpingpaws/articles/article_125.html

toxoplasmosis can affect unborn babies, and the mother's do not even notice that they have come into contact with it.
toxoplasmosis can cause birth defects in these unborn babies.





You said "I think" once. the rest you just stated other crap that isn't true|!

Seriously ...
watchdogwanted

Posts: 79

QUOTE 7/28/2007 5:37:40 PM
on the topic of spay/nutoring(sp)

im all fer altering your pets. i usualy use my vets discrimination on what age to do it. but my friend from 4-h brought her 2 cats to be spayed (b/c 4-h has a rule about all animals must b altered unless they are breeding livestock) and returned with 2 dead cats. something about the surgery going wrong or something? she was clearly upset so i didnt want to bug her about it. but now she walks around saying dont spay or nuetor your cats! it kills them! what can i say to her that will not hurt her feelings or anything? both the cats were adults and i think one of them had had a litter, so this does not involve the "too young" argument.

do you guys have any advise that i can tell her that will change her mind, ive already told her about how there are so many cats in the shelters and about how so many die dailyb/c people dont spay or nuetor there cats but she is EXTREMELY upset about all this.
zoesmum

Posts: 286

QUOTE 7/28/2007 6:28:04 PM

Quote watchdogwanted:

on the topic of spay/nutoring(sp)

im all fer altering your pets. i usualy use my vets discrimination on what age to do it. but my friend from 4-h brought her 2 cats to be spayed (b/c 4-h has a rule about all animals must b altered unless they are breeding livestock) and returned with 2 dead cats. something about the surgery going wrong or something? she was clearly upset so i didnt want to bug her about it. but now she walks around saying dont spay or nuetor your cats! it kills them! what can i say to her that will not hurt her feelings or anything? both the cats were adults and i think one of them had had a litter, so this does not involve the "too young" argument.

do you guys have any advise that i can tell her that will change her mind, ive already told her about how there are so many cats in the shelters and about how so many die dailyb/c people dont spay or nuetor there cats but she is EXTREMELY upset about all this.
Could be a few things ... cats weren't healthy to start off with

Unsanitary conditions

Sh**ty vet???

My guess would be the last option.

Telling other's not to spay or neuter their animals is sort of ridiculous of her. I understand she is upset right now - btu how many millions upon millions of spays and neuters have taken place where there HAVE NOT been complications. You friend needs to think about this situation reasonably ... and get another vet!!
rescuewench

Posts: 7081

QUOTE 7/29/2007 2:17:57 AM
i would think teh odds of 2 cats dying being altered teh SAMN day are astronimical and i am having a hard time believeing it .


sorry.
cm1123

Posts: 36

QUOTE 7/29/2007 5:09:13 AM
It's no surprise that this thread went off on a tangent when it didn't need to. The OP stated that dogs should be fixed early and the other person agreed that dogs should be fixed but not as early like how the OP wanted. It may be true that there are lots of pro and cons but as Henry Clay once said "statistics are no substitute for judgement." I do agree that dogs should be fixed but as someone pointed out to me I think in one of my thread, spaying early may reduce chances of certain illnesses but it could also increase chances of getting other illnesses. Just because you are a pro in something doesn't mean you are always right about that matter. For instance, astronomers have always said that Pluto was a planet and guess what it isn't. Even professionals make mistakes in theories and that's why studies are performed over and over.

Just because you find it hard to believe something doesn't mean that it never happened. Anything is possible. Even sheeps being sold as Poodles. Back when I had my original first 3 dogs, we took 2 to get fixed and only one came home. The boy died. The funny part is that the one that never got fixed actually lived the longest out of all the dogs that we ever had during that decade. A non fixed dog living longer than all the rest of the younger and fixed dogs. She lived for about 15 years and with no illness whereas the rest of the other 10 plus dogs never reached a decade. Isn't that irony for you?

PS Everyone here should be glad that the majority of the people are pro fix so there should be no need for bashing anyone for being early or late because at least it's going to happen rather than never. That's my two cents.
maoseger1010

Posts: 6985

QUOTE 7/29/2007 9:23:13 AM

Quote cm1123:

It's no surprise that this thread went off on a tangent when it didn't need to. The OP stated that dogs should be fixed early and the other person agreed that dogs should be fixed but not as early like how the OP wanted. It may be true that there are lots of pro and cons but as Henry Clay once said "statistics are no substitute for judgement." I do agree that dogs should be fixed but as someone pointed out to me I think in one of my thread, spaying early may reduce chances of certain illnesses but it could also increase chances of getting other illnesses. Just because you are a pro in something doesn't mean you are always right about that matter. For instance, astronomers have always said that Pluto was a planet and guess what it isn't. Even professionals make mistakes in theories and that's why studies are performed over and over.

Just because you find it hard to believe something doesn't mean that it never happened. Anything is possible. Even sheeps being sold as Poodles. Back when I had my original first 3 dogs, we took 2 to get fixed and only one came home. The boy died. The funny part is that the one that never got fixed actually lived the longest out of all the dogs that we ever had during that decade. A non fixed dog living longer than all the rest of the younger and fixed dogs. She lived for about 15 years and with no illness whereas the rest of the other 10 plus dogs never reached a decade. Isn't that irony for you?

PS Everyone here should be glad that the majority of the people are pro fix so there should be no need for bashing anyone for being early or late because at least it's going to happen rather than never. That's my two cents.
Let me just say I would be up in arms demanding and someone tell me exactly what killed my cats, if that where to happen to me. Two cats at the same time??? Either the gas was bad..the teck running the gas was bad...or the vet was bad... Someone should have had to pay for those screw ups big time.

I have stayed pretty quite on this subject until now..... In MY OPINION

I do not believe that under normal circumstances a cat or dog should be spayed or neutered until they are four to five months of age... However having said that I also know that many people will not bring the cat or dog back to be fixed from a shelter...so it seems that they must spay or neuter those pets before they leave.

For the life of me I don't understand why people have such a problem spaying or neutering their pets... are they too cheap...uneducated or just don't care... I simply do not know.

I have worked closely with vets for years and I know that some animals die when put under...fact of life... JUST as some humans die when put under. HOWEVER to refuse to spay or neuter because of the risk is irresponsible.

Before anyone asks... YES I have had a pet die while under I lost and lovely English Bulldog. However I knew the risks and I have since spayed and neutered other English Bulldogs, cats and dogs.

I do not do well under anistetic(sp) and its a risk every time I have to go under but better I die trying to live that die doing nothing at all....

My two cents spend at will
rescuewench

Posts: 7081

QUOTE 7/29/2007 10:22:26 AM

Quote cm1123:

It's no surprise that this thread went off on a tangent when it didn't need to. The OP stated that dogs should be fixed early and the other person agreed that dogs should be fixed but not as early like how the OP wanted. It may be true that there are lots of pro and cons but as Henry Clay once said "statistics are no substitute for judgement." I do agree that dogs should be fixed but as someone pointed out to me I think in one of my thread, spaying early may reduce chances of certain illnesses but it could also increase chances of getting other illnesses. Just because you are a pro in something doesn't mean you are always right about that matter. For instance, astronomers have always said that Pluto was a planet and guess what it isn't. Even professionals make mistakes in theories and that's why studies are performed over and over.

Just because you find it hard to believe something doesn't mean that it never happened. Anything is possible. Even sheeps being sold as Poodles. Back when I had my original first 3 dogs, we took 2 to get fixed and only one came home. The boy died. The funny part is that the one that never got fixed actually lived the longest out of all the dogs that we ever had during that decade. A non fixed dog living longer than all the rest of the younger and fixed dogs. She lived for about 15 years and with no illness whereas the rest of the other 10 plus dogs never reached a decade. Isn't that irony for you?

PS Everyone here should be glad that the majority of the people are pro fix so there should be no need for bashing anyone for being early or late because at least it's going to happen rather than never. That's my two cents.
quote" The OP stated that dogs should be fixed early and the other person agreed that dogs should be fixed but not as early like how the OP wanted. "


UMMM you didnt get that exactly correct :

the OP ( ME) posted information from a web site ( several) about early spay & neuter.

it states 10-12 weeks for females.

personaly i prefer them done at 8 weeks - but will do them at 10 as that is the earliest my vet will do females - she WILL do males at 8 weeks.



THE point in me posting this info is :

1- to prevent OOPS litters

2- to prevent cancer in BOTH sexes by waiting till teh pup is closer to sexual maturity



* teh links & articles posted wer not written BY me .

i have NEVER done a cancer study in my life - i am not a scientist.

however I was trying to open up areas of Interest that would give opthers possible interest to do furthur researchon their own.

the AVMA is ON RESCORD as of 1996 endorsing pediatric spay & neuter. BTW.

I would HOPE & ASSUME the AVMA , would know a heck of alot more about this topic then ANY of us here .

XRW





beaglebrat

Posts: 1370

QUOTE 7/29/2007 11:46:56 AM
Maybe it is the new thing to give complete hysterectomies and castrate puppies and kittens at 8-10 weeks of age, but MOST VETS DO DO DO NOT NOT NOT recommend or practice this.

It is the nutty rescue people for sho and the poor vets that have to work with them.
YES, pet dogs and cats need to be altered, but NOT at such a young age. I am not arguing that it not be done, JUST WHEN and that people know the risks. Nothing wrong with that.

RW-- I have 3 wonderful competent vets with probably 80 YEARS combined experience treating animals and doing spays and neuters. ALL OF THEM SAY WAIT UNTIL AT LEAST 6 MONTHS to alter pets.

In FACT I looked in to PEDIATRIC SPAY for a client that wanted it done, and NO VETS IN OUR AREA DO IT. NONE. The closest was 90 minutes away! And instead of charging the 'normal' rate of $90-120 that every one else charges, the 'pediatric spay' vet charged $300 PLUS and needed a SEPARATE pre-op visit ($50).

If you are a responsible pet owner, why not wait? For the safety of your pet? It is SO unlikely that a bitch would get bred before 6 months. Many males don't even TRY to hump things until 6-9 months (or longer). Who is to say that a 6 month old male would have developed swimmers or be fertile if they tried?

I also nearly lost a girl to spay. Her lungs started filling up with blood or fluid on the table so they had to finish quickly. She took a long time coming out of the anesthetic, but I was able to take her home. Good thing because she started bleeding internally and would have probably died during the night if she had just been left at the office. When I took her home I noticed a swelling and then a couple staples popped out and spilled about a Pepsi can of blood. They had to open her back up and stop the bleeding.
zoesmum

Posts: 286

QUOTE 7/29/2007 12:21:40 PM
My vet office has 3 vets, with three different opinions. The oldest vet (male) believes that no animals should be spayed or neutered until 8 months. The 2nd vet (and second oldest, also male) believes that 6 months is the key. The youngest one (female) believes that anything past 4 months is reasonable, and anything closer to that 4 month mark is ideal.

Quote: "It is the nutty rescue people for sho and the poor vets that have to work with them." First of all, I don't know what "sho" means, and second of all, us "nutty rescue" people have seen what happens when animals are not fixed - MORE animals for us to rescue. What exactly were you trying to point out by calling us "nutty"? You ask RW about being "nutty".

3 vets with 80 years combined are likely still believing in the old school way of doing things. This isn't necessarily bad, just not up to date. Many human doctors are the same way, not stupid, just not helping their patients the best they can - with the most up to date information. As far as I have read and understood, vets used to only do spays/neuters later because the anisthetic (sp) was not that great, and they had to wait until the animal was physically stronger to be able to handle the anisthetic. Nothing to do with the animal needing to be older.

As for your comment on "responsible pet owners waiting for spay" I think this needs to be an individual choice. Each person does their own research, talks to different vets, and finds out what they believe. Responsible pet owners research!

I find 10 weeks way to early, I have no real reason for that, only that at 10 weeks they are so little, and there is no chance that they are going to get pregnant, or impregnate another dog, right?
cannonfarms

Posts: 3143

QUOTE 7/29/2007 12:26:33 PM
I wasnt sure on the peds speuter thing at first. My husband and i have took in several animals last year, cats ranging from 8 weeks to 3 years of age and i took them all in at once to get done. I can say that 2 girsl and 3 boys the younger ones had an easier time and acted like nothing had happend they recovered a whole lot quicker..

After all , its not rocket science we do heal as well as we get older.

I couldnt begin to tell you how many speuters i have done, luckly i have never lost one, out of over a 100..

The vet forgot to do one, but other than that its been all good.. (course that dang cat ran off as soon as she could never to be seen again.. simi ferrel)
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