ckc / akc

ckc / akc

kayc415

Posts: 1

QUOTE 12/31/2008 8:18:45 PM
I bought a CKC Shih Tzu and didn't realize it was not the Canadian Kennel Club, but he is still they best little guy around. He is more to the breed than my female AKC registered Shih Tzu.Just by the standards and so on. I think that all registries must have started out the same way. They do register mix breeds but they are now so popular that they should be known as a breed. Shoot... some cost just as much. We may call them mutts but they are in high demand. Just remember that if you do by CKC make sure you know if they have other generations that are registered as pure breed.
specialolympics

Posts: 1

QUOTE 5/6/2009 4:05:54 PM
HELP! I don't want dogs for breeding. Just companions.

Am looking at two whose mom is CKC and Dad is AKC. They are German Shepherds.

Will they be ok or will they die young, or what can I expect. Anyone know?

thanks.
wyokees

Posts: 3

QUOTE 7/18/2009 7:49:38 PM
There is nothing wrong with CKC. Ive seen lots of inferior AKC dogs. It just depends on the breeder youre dealing with and how into their hobby they are. The dog show world goes through fashions and dogs are bred down so they cant perform like they were meant to. Theyre kept in artificial environments and treated like people. Just breed the best dogs you can. Everybody has to get a start somewhere and gain knowledge and experience.
annews

Posts: 1

QUOTE 7/19/2009 10:20:02 AM
 CKC. means nothing,

 You can reg. a skunk as a collie if you want to. They have no proof that the dog is even full bred. The people who use ckc are doing so to save money and make sure tha akc doesn't come check their property. be aware..
serenityhavenkennel

Posts: 2

QUOTE 7/19/2009 10:44:01 AM
We have all AKC dogs with the exception of two CKC dogs...all are purebreed and have AKC backgrounds. AKC is excellent, but when you have a problem with something, they WILL NOT stand behind you and support you. If you buy an AKC dog, make sure you have DNA done asap, if there is a problem down the road, AKC will not support you and do nothing to the person that you bought the dog from....they are NO different then any other registry when it comes to that. I love AKC and prefer not to have any other registry, but they are not very supportive at all. If you are looking for a good "pet" it really does not matter the registration, that is just a piece of paper. The animal will be spayed or neutered anyhow.
serenityhavenkennel

Posts: 2

QUOTE 7/19/2009 10:44:47 AM
We have all AKC dogs with the exception of two CKC dogs...all are purebreed and have AKC backgrounds. AKC is excellent, but when you have a problem with something, they WILL NOT stand behind you and support you. If you buy an AKC dog, make sure you have DNA done asap, if there is a problem down the road, AKC will not support you and do nothing to the person that you bought the dog from....they are NO different then any other registry when it comes to that. I love AKC and prefer not to have any other registry, but they are not very supportive at all. If you are looking for a good "pet" it really does not matter the registration, that is just a piece of paper. The animal will be spayed or neutered anyhow.
moggie

Posts: 702

QUOTE 7/19/2009 6:01:24 PM
 if youe been a bassett owner for years, im sure you are pretty well educated on the breed. if you are like myself, you have read every breed book.. and done all your homework. with this said, im sure you know a quality bassett, and im sure you have one, given the fact that you are considering breeding. the paper you hold  is just that...a piece of paper. it is no better nor worse than akc or any other club..let me say...registration company.  99.9% of all purebreds were akc at one time or another anyway.  when i was breeding, i doubled registered simply to get out of giving out akc papers and fooling with akc. your judgement will be the best. take what you hear on here with a grain of salt. good luck
maoseger1010

Posts: 6985

QUOTE 8/2/2009 11:01:41 PM

Quote serenityhavenkennel:

We have all AKC dogs with the exception of two CKC dogs...all are purebreed and have AKC backgrounds. AKC is excellent, but when you have a problem with something, they WILL NOT stand behind you and support you. If you buy an AKC dog, make sure you have DNA done asap, if there is a problem down the road, AKC will not support you and do nothing to the person that you bought the dog from....they are NO different then any other registry when it comes to that. I love AKC and prefer not to have any other registry, but they are not very supportive at all. If you are looking for a good "pet" it really does not matter the registration, that is just a piece of paper. The animal will be spayed or neutered anyhow.
purebred... not purebreed just so you know.
tanktrouble

Posts: 30

QUOTE 8/10/2009 5:34:12 PM
I agree that it is a little too easy to register animals with CKC.  However, don't judge an animal's quality just by the registry.  I know of breeders who use CKC registry just because they don't want to deal with the AKC restrictions.  They have gorgeous, quality animals, though.
mileysmama

Posts: 2

QUOTE 8/12/2009 3:31:56 AM
CKC also stands for Canadian Kennel Club. It will say on there which one it is.
runningridge

Posts: 102

QUOTE 8/15/2009 6:06:03 PM
CKC, UKC, AKC, APRI, ACR, APR, UKCI, UABR, ACA .... they are ALL just registries and base their registration on the HONESTY of the person applying for the papers.  Why do most seem to think that it is the registry itselfs fault that people CHOOSE to lie?

They all issue papers based on an unending set of numbers. 

YES, a few registries do have a few extra programs but I have watched EVERY ONE of their programs fail in one way or another.   Cases in point being:

1.  Had a friend who was asked for a frequent sire DNA on one of her studs.  She had chosen to start registering with another registry so totally ignored AKC's request.  To this day she has not submitted the DNA and has not heard from AKC again.   By the way - Anybody know what happens now if the AKC dog you buy FLUNKS the parentage i.d. DNA?  They simply roll it over to a "CONDITIONAL GUARANTEE" and you can continue to breed that dog and once you have the 3rd generation they are once again granted the full papers.  3 generations from a possibly MIXED breed dog and it's considered Purebred once again.  Guess I'm a

little more picky of what my dogs MIGHT be and don't feel AKC's efforts to keep from losing revenue and clients is what I would consider in the best interest of

purebred SPECIFIC BREED dogs.   How is this any different than CKC's foundation registration? 

AKC now has a crossbred or unknown breed program as well.  They will register your mixed breed or unknown breed animal and issue you a registration certificate.  Of course the difference is that they are just PIECES OF PAPERS as they are only good for you to be able to enter your dog into an UN-CONFORMATION event with AKC.   No breeding allowed.   Guess I'm confused as to WHY you would need that piece of paper for an agility event!  Why not just let whoever

wants to enter - I'm going to give AKC the benefit of the doubt and assume that it doesn't have to do with money!

2.  AKC Inspected and Full Compliance - Just EXACTLY what are they looking for?  I have several acquaintances that I know that have that splashed all over

their website like it the Best In Show Award yet I wouldn't step foot on their premises of fear what I'd bring home to my own dogs.  Been to more than my share

of other kennels that wear that banner like a shield and it just makes me sick of what I saw with my own eyes yet AKC gave them the stamp of approval.  Sorry

folks but there is just no way that in a week you can have NICE, organized, clean facilities and dogs and then when I show up you have deteroriated facilities,

grass so high you can't see the dogs and dogs whose bones were visible from 50 feet away.  And this isn't a jab at AKC as that is what you would see if you

visited enough kennels or knew enough breeders who used ANY REGISTRY that had an inspection program.  

3.  SHOW BREEDERS - there are good ones and bad ones.   Going to shows in NO WAY makes them a better person or breeder.  The only thing I have

seen over the years is that Show Breeders usually do have MORE breed standard type dogs.  Now keep in mind that BREED STANDARDS CHANGE with

the whims of those in power so don't think there aren't some really LOUD and MUD-SLING conversations amongst show breeders when the standards are

trying to be changed and they DO CHANGE.  Just check the APPROVED date on the latest breed standard of your choice to see when was the last time

your Specific breeds were changed.  I've seen some BETTER LOOKING, Better quality and healthier dogs in a NON-SHOW breeding program and the

only difference was that ONE SHOWS and ONE DOESN"T.  PRIDE and a little common sense is the key to who raises the better dog. 

4.  Facilities - Surely all of you aren't under the misconception that Show breeders keep all of their breeding dogs in their house?  Well some do and I've seen

those kennels THEY LIVE IN and a large percentage of them should be condemned for human habitation.   Most of your long time, high profile show breeders

have a LOT of dogs.  They have to in order to breed the very best and stay on the top of their field.  These folks either have large facilities or they keep them

crated in their house.  BOTH have pros and cons and I do have my opinions on both.  I'd prefer to see one OUTSIDE than living in a crate in a basement or

living room - I'm sure the dog would prefer it as well but that's my personal opinion of which NOBODY has asked me for.    It seems at the moment there is a

multi-state wide campaign going in several breeds to see how much damage they can do to Breeders Reputations and it all seems to be a WITCH HUNT.

Check out the top breeder of Giant Schnazuers and see all of the web-crap that has been posted about her?  Or if your really into a bunch of mud-slinging

and bull-crap then check out the Miniature Pinscher World - those gals can really get down and dirty.  How much is true?  Very little I imagine but whose to

say!

4.  AKC Suspension List - For any of you that THINK AKC is the only registry to use then I would direct you to the AKC Suspension List.  ALL of the

breeders there have been suspended for doing something wrong, unethical or fraudulent.   They were ALL AKC BREEDERS and I'm sure at one time

had puppies bought from them because they were AKC Breeders.  Bet those that have revoked AKC papers are rethinking their earlier misconception of

what they THOUGHT AKC papers meant.   Most are only Suspended and given a fine at which time they can come back into the fold and continue on with

business as usual.

5.  HEALTH - Who actually believes that a PIECE of paper issused by AKC means the dog is healthier?  I certainly hope there are VERY FEW folks that

niave.  Now show me a MPS VI piece of paper or another one that is GOOD FOR LIFE and not for 1 to 3 years and I'll consider that piece of paper

worth GOLD.

6.  PAPERS - How many breed PAPERS?  I don't breed PAPERS - I breed DOGS and I look for the BEST LOOKING, HEALTHIEST, BEST TEMPERED

ones around to use for breeding.  If your looking for PAPERS then they are a dime a dozen and are issued by 100's of Registries so you shouldn't have a hard

time finding the one you want.   Don't complain though when you can't get those papers to make your dog look any better, be any healthier or keep the dog

from biting the hand that feeds it.

7.  PEDIGREES - It's a FAMILY TREE and can be useful in the right hands by those who know what they have and are looking for.  It's useless to most

Pet buyers and most times useless to dog breeders that aren't in the loop with their breed and get all of the gossip about whose dog just flunked what test

and whose dog produced a puppy with a hereditary issue.   Nobody has asked for my opinion but personally I won't buy a dog without at least a 7 generation

documented pedigree.  I have to ASSUME that the pedigree is accurate and that if I do the research on it that I'll be spending my time in a worthy manner but

who is to say for sure.  I do know that seeing a Pedigree has kept me from purchasing quite a few dogs that I knew had Hereditary issues associated with the

bloodline - BIG NAME BLOODLINES so don't assume that just because you see a Red Line pedigree that it means quality.  The Show ring has NEVER

asked for a genetic evaluation of one single dog that walked through the gate. 

8.  Breeders - Oh the good, the bad and the evil - I can assure you they are all alive and well in the dog world.  The good ones do their very best to raise

quality dogs and be fair in what they are doing - do they have problems - you betcha - the difference is that they usually get slam-dunked for trying to share

their learning experiences and share their lessons of hard-knocks.  The bad ones hide, change their name - kennel name, change addresses and are usually

the ones talking about the OTHER breeders.  The evil ones are the ones who have no conscious, no desire to get better or do better and are usually the ones

that cause the rest of us to have to live with more legislation that will eventually stop all of us from being allowed to raise dogs.   These are the ones who give

who ALL a bad name with the help from some in the BAD ONE catagory. 

9.  Closing - Is one registry better than another - Not in my opinion as long as you understand their policies and what your getting - It's a PIECE OF PAPER.

Are show breeders better than ANY OTHER BREEDER - Not in my opinion as I've been on both sides.  The dog is the same quality whether it tip toes through

the show ring or sneaks out the back gate of your yard.  Taking it to the show ring WILL NOT make it a better dog but maybe a MORE RECOGNIZED one.

I have no issues with AKC, have never been suspended, fined or even contacted by them the MANY YEARS I did use them but I also don't think they are the

ONLY registry that Reputable breeders use.   I simply swapped when I started raising breeds that the AKC did not at that time register and it was easier just to

use one registry and show through that registry since they offered dog shows as well.    All of this is my opinion and as I've stated nobody asked me for it but

it's here for you to read or not read - YOUR CHOICE.  I also do not consider myself an English teacher so if I've misspelled any words please do not rake me

over the coals for it as I've seen other forums do when they apparently couldn't find anything else to complain about. 

We all have Choices - Thank God we live in the United States of America where sometimes we can still make our own Choices even though some feel the need

to condemn others for theirs. 

jchamp52

Posts: 261

QUOTE 8/15/2009 7:00:42 PM

Quote runningridge:

CKC, UKC, AKC, APRI, ACR, APR, UKCI, UABR, ACA .... they are ALL just registries and base their registration on the HONESTY of the person applying for the papers.  Why do most seem to think that it is the registry itselfs fault that people CHOOSE to lie?

They all issue papers based on an unending set of numbers. 

YES, a few registries do have a few extra programs but I have watched EVERY ONE of their programs fail in one way or another.   Cases in point being:

1.  Had a friend who was asked for a frequent sire DNA on one of her studs.  She had chosen to start registering with another registry so totally ignored AKC's request.  To this day she has not submitted the DNA and has not heard from AKC again.   By the way - Anybody know what happens now if the AKC dog you buy FLUNKS the parentage i.d. DNA?  They simply roll it over to a "CONDITIONAL GUARANTEE" and you can continue to breed that dog and once you have the 3rd generation they are once again granted the full papers.  3 generations from a possibly MIXED breed dog and it's considered Purebred once again.  Guess I'm a

little more picky of what my dogs MIGHT be and don't feel AKC's efforts to keep from losing revenue and clients is what I would consider in the best interest of

purebred SPECIFIC BREED dogs.   How is this any different than CKC's foundation registration? 

AKC now has a crossbred or unknown breed program as well.  They will register your mixed breed or unknown breed animal and issue you a registration certificate.  Of course the difference is that they are just PIECES OF PAPERS as they are only good for you to be able to enter your dog into an UN-CONFORMATION event with AKC.   No breeding allowed.   Guess I'm confused as to WHY you would need that piece of paper for an agility event!  Why not just let whoever

wants to enter - I'm going to give AKC the benefit of the doubt and assume that it doesn't have to do with money!

2.  AKC Inspected and Full Compliance - Just EXACTLY what are they looking for?  I have several acquaintances that I know that have that splashed all over

their website like it the Best In Show Award yet I wouldn't step foot on their premises of fear what I'd bring home to my own dogs.  Been to more than my share

of other kennels that wear that banner like a shield and it just makes me sick of what I saw with my own eyes yet AKC gave them the stamp of approval.  Sorry

folks but there is just no way that in a week you can have NICE, organized, clean facilities and dogs and then when I show up you have deteroriated facilities,

grass so high you can't see the dogs and dogs whose bones were visible from 50 feet away.  And this isn't a jab at AKC as that is what you would see if you

visited enough kennels or knew enough breeders who used ANY REGISTRY that had an inspection program.  

3.  SHOW BREEDERS - there are good ones and bad ones.   Going to shows in NO WAY makes them a better person or breeder.  The only thing I have

seen over the years is that Show Breeders usually do have MORE breed standard type dogs.  Now keep in mind that BREED STANDARDS CHANGE with

the whims of those in power so don't think there aren't some really LOUD and MUD-SLING conversations amongst show breeders when the standards are

trying to be changed and they DO CHANGE.  Just check the APPROVED date on the latest breed standard of your choice to see when was the last time

your Specific breeds were changed.  I've seen some BETTER LOOKING, Better quality and healthier dogs in a NON-SHOW breeding program and the

only difference was that ONE SHOWS and ONE DOESN"T.  PRIDE and a little common sense is the key to who raises the better dog. 

4.  Facilities - Surely all of you aren't under the misconception that Show breeders keep all of their breeding dogs in their house?  Well some do and I've seen

those kennels THEY LIVE IN and a large percentage of them should be condemned for human habitation.   Most of your long time, high profile show breeders

have a LOT of dogs.  They have to in order to breed the very best and stay on the top of their field.  These folks either have large facilities or they keep them

crated in their house.  BOTH have pros and cons and I do have my opinions on both.  I'd prefer to see one OUTSIDE than living in a crate in a basement or

living room - I'm sure the dog would prefer it as well but that's my personal opinion of which NOBODY has asked me for.    It seems at the moment there is a

multi-state wide campaign going in several breeds to see how much damage they can do to Breeders Reputations and it all seems to be a WITCH HUNT.

Check out the top breeder of Giant Schnazuers and see all of the web-crap that has been posted about her?  Or if your really into a bunch of mud-slinging

and bull-crap then check out the Miniature Pinscher World - those gals can really get down and dirty.  How much is true?  Very little I imagine but whose to

say!

4.  AKC Suspension List - For any of you that THINK AKC is the only registry to use then I would direct you to the AKC Suspension List.  ALL of the

breeders there have been suspended for doing something wrong, unethical or fraudulent.   They were ALL AKC BREEDERS and I'm sure at one time

had puppies bought from them because they were AKC Breeders.  Bet those that have revoked AKC papers are rethinking their earlier misconception of

what they THOUGHT AKC papers meant.   Most are only Suspended and given a fine at which time they can come back into the fold and continue on with

business as usual.

5.  HEALTH - Who actually believes that a PIECE of paper issused by AKC means the dog is healthier?  I certainly hope there are VERY FEW folks that

niave.  Now show me a MPS VI piece of paper or another one that is GOOD FOR LIFE and not for 1 to 3 years and I'll consider that piece of paper

worth GOLD.

6.  PAPERS - How many breed PAPERS?  I don't breed PAPERS - I breed DOGS and I look for the BEST LOOKING, HEALTHIEST, BEST TEMPERED

ones around to use for breeding.  If your looking for PAPERS then they are a dime a dozen and are issued by 100's of Registries so you shouldn't have a hard

time finding the one you want.   Don't complain though when you can't get those papers to make your dog look any better, be any healthier or keep the dog

from biting the hand that feeds it.

7.  PEDIGREES - It's a FAMILY TREE and can be useful in the right hands by those who know what they have and are looking for.  It's useless to most

Pet buyers and most times useless to dog breeders that aren't in the loop with their breed and get all of the gossip about whose dog just flunked what test

and whose dog produced a puppy with a hereditary issue.   Nobody has asked for my opinion but personally I won't buy a dog without at least a 7 generation

documented pedigree.  I have to ASSUME that the pedigree is accurate and that if I do the research on it that I'll be spending my time in a worthy manner but

who is to say for sure.  I do know that seeing a Pedigree has kept me from purchasing quite a few dogs that I knew had Hereditary issues associated with the

bloodline - BIG NAME BLOODLINES so don't assume that just because you see a Red Line pedigree that it means quality.  The Show ring has NEVER

asked for a genetic evaluation of one single dog that walked through the gate. 

8.  Breeders - Oh the good, the bad and the evil - I can assure you they are all alive and well in the dog world.  The good ones do their very best to raise

quality dogs and be fair in what they are doing - do they have problems - you betcha - the difference is that they usually get slam-dunked for trying to share

their learning experiences and share their lessons of hard-knocks.  The bad ones hide, change their name - kennel name, change addresses and are usually

the ones talking about the OTHER breeders.  The evil ones are the ones who have no conscious, no desire to get better or do better and are usually the ones

that cause the rest of us to have to live with more legislation that will eventually stop all of us from being allowed to raise dogs.   These are the ones who give

who ALL a bad name with the help from some in the BAD ONE catagory. 

9.  Closing - Is one registry better than another - Not in my opinion as long as you understand their policies and what your getting - It's a PIECE OF PAPER.

Are show breeders better than ANY OTHER BREEDER - Not in my opinion as I've been on both sides.  The dog is the same quality whether it tip toes through

the show ring or sneaks out the back gate of your yard.  Taking it to the show ring WILL NOT make it a better dog but maybe a MORE RECOGNIZED one.

I have no issues with AKC, have never been suspended, fined or even contacted by them the MANY YEARS I did use them but I also don't think they are the

ONLY registry that Reputable breeders use.   I simply swapped when I started raising breeds that the AKC did not at that time register and it was easier just to

use one registry and show through that registry since they offered dog shows as well.    All of this is my opinion and as I've stated nobody asked me for it but

it's here for you to read or not read - YOUR CHOICE.  I also do not consider myself an English teacher so if I've misspelled any words please do not rake me

over the coals for it as I've seen other forums do when they apparently couldn't find anything else to complain about. 

We all have Choices - Thank God we live in the United States of America where sometimes we can still make our own Choices even though some feel the need

to condemn others for theirs. 

WOW...OMG... this has to be one of the most informative post I have ever read, on any forum.

I am almost afraid to say.... I am one of those breeders that has "AKC inspected and approved" on my site.  And darn, I was/am proud of that little scrap of paper!!  My inspector went over my records with a fine tooth comb, it was my first inspection and I was a wreck. He showed up out of the blue and I nearly fainted.

I did NOT know that the DNA would just be "carried forward" that is so NOT what I wanted to hear.  I am busting my chuncky butt to try and improve my lines with good bloodlines. 

Since I am new to ALL the CH bloodlines, I have to depend on the seller/breeder to be honest that those lines are genetically healthy. Now, not only do I have to worry the the red names are healthy I also have to HOPE the red line really belongs to that dog.

Where is my paper bag,  I am going to pass out here.

I have first hand knowledge about how catty the show breeders can be..... 







runningridge

Posts: 102

QUOTE 8/16/2009 9:16:25 AM

Quote jchamp52:

WOW...OMG... this has to be one of the most informative post I have ever read, on any forum.

I am almost afraid to say.... I am one of those breeders that has "AKC inspected and approved" on my site.  And darn, I was/am proud of that little scrap of paper!!  My inspector went over my records with a fine tooth comb, it was my first inspection and I was a wreck. He showed up out of the blue and I nearly fainted.

I did NOT know that the DNA would just be "carried forward" that is so NOT what I wanted to hear.  I am busting my chuncky butt to try and improve my lines with good bloodlines. 

Since I am new to ALL the CH bloodlines, I have to depend on the seller/breeder to be honest that those lines are genetically healthy. Now, not only do I have to worry the the red names are healthy I also have to HOPE the red line really belongs to that dog.

Where is my paper bag,  I am going to pass out here.

I have first hand knowledge about how catty the show breeders can be..... 







Absolutely NOTHING WRONG with taking pride in passing an inspection.  I just wanted OTHERS to know that there might be a BIG DIFFERENCE in

what they think it means and what it sometimes means.  I imagine it comes down

to the inspector in having pride of doing his/her job.  

As you said "He went over your RECORDS with a fine tooth comb". 

I personally wouldn't care if you kept your records in a shoe box but I do care

what condition your kennel and dogs are in if I'm planning to get one of your

puppies and it's a misleading miconception to many when they see the AKC

Inspected and found in full compliance banner on SOME breeders websites.

I'd be proud of that Piece of Paper too as the alternative wouldn't be much

fun and whose to say "WHAT" causes any one to fail a inspection. 

If somebody fails based on 'paperwork' then big deal unless it was based on

Parentage I.D. - otherwise if you just haven't recorded a recently born litter

or you accidentally omitted some buyers name then I fail to see the importance

of making somebody APPEAR to be a bad breeder when in reality that couldn't be furthur from the truth.

Of course you know a lot of what AKC does is an agreement that was made

with the Doris Day League of America to settle a lawsuit they filed against the

AKC.  The DNA program is a result of that lawsuit so don't think that AKC

was wanting to be the forerunner of the industry.

It still comes down to buying the DOG and not the Papers and using a little common sense and buying quality irregardless of who the breeder is or what registry they use.
heelermom

Posts: 1

QUOTE 11/2/2009 7:24:39 PM

Quote runningridge:

CKC, UKC, AKC, APRI, ACR, APR, UKCI, UABR, ACA .... they are ALL just registries and base their registration on the HONESTY of the person applying for the papers.  Why do most seem to think that it is the registry itselfs fault that people CHOOSE to lie?

They all issue papers based on an unending set of numbers. 

YES, a few registries do have a few extra programs but I have watched EVERY ONE of their programs fail in one way or another.   Cases in point being:

1.  Had a friend who was asked for a frequent sire DNA on one of her studs.  She had chosen to start registering with another registry so totally ignored AKC's request.  To this day she has not submitted the DNA and has not heard from AKC again.   By the way - Anybody know what happens now if the AKC dog you buy FLUNKS the parentage i.d. DNA?  They simply roll it over to a "CONDITIONAL GUARANTEE" and you can continue to breed that dog and once you have the 3rd generation they are once again granted the full papers.  3 generations from a possibly MIXED breed dog and it's considered Purebred once again.  Guess I'm a

little more picky of what my dogs MIGHT be and don't feel AKC's efforts to keep from losing revenue and clients is what I would consider in the best interest of

purebred SPECIFIC BREED dogs.   How is this any different than CKC's foundation registration? 

AKC now has a crossbred or unknown breed program as well.  They will register your mixed breed or unknown breed animal and issue you a registration certificate.  Of course the difference is that they are just PIECES OF PAPERS as they are only good for you to be able to enter your dog into an UN-CONFORMATION event with AKC.   No breeding allowed.   Guess I'm confused as to WHY you would need that piece of paper for an agility event!  Why not just let whoever

wants to enter - I'm going to give AKC the benefit of the doubt and assume that it doesn't have to do with money!

2.  AKC Inspected and Full Compliance - Just EXACTLY what are they looking for?  I have several acquaintances that I know that have that splashed all over

their website like it the Best In Show Award yet I wouldn't step foot on their premises of fear what I'd bring home to my own dogs.  Been to more than my share

of other kennels that wear that banner like a shield and it just makes me sick of what I saw with my own eyes yet AKC gave them the stamp of approval.  Sorry

folks but there is just no way that in a week you can have NICE, organized, clean facilities and dogs and then when I show up you have deteroriated facilities,

grass so high you can't see the dogs and dogs whose bones were visible from 50 feet away.  And this isn't a jab at AKC as that is what you would see if you

visited enough kennels or knew enough breeders who used ANY REGISTRY that had an inspection program.  

3.  SHOW BREEDERS - there are good ones and bad ones.   Going to shows in NO WAY makes them a better person or breeder.  The only thing I have

seen over the years is that Show Breeders usually do have MORE breed standard type dogs.  Now keep in mind that BREED STANDARDS CHANGE with

the whims of those in power so don't think there aren't some really LOUD and MUD-SLING conversations amongst show breeders when the standards are

trying to be changed and they DO CHANGE.  Just check the APPROVED date on the latest breed standard of your choice to see when was the last time

your Specific breeds were changed.  I've seen some BETTER LOOKING, Better quality and healthier dogs in a NON-SHOW breeding program and the

only difference was that ONE SHOWS and ONE DOESN"T.  PRIDE and a little common sense is the key to who raises the better dog. 

4.  Facilities - Surely all of you aren't under the misconception that Show breeders keep all of their breeding dogs in their house?  Well some do and I've seen

those kennels THEY LIVE IN and a large percentage of them should be condemned for human habitation.   Most of your long time, high profile show breeders

have a LOT of dogs.  They have to in order to breed the very best and stay on the top of their field.  These folks either have large facilities or they keep them

crated in their house.  BOTH have pros and cons and I do have my opinions on both.  I'd prefer to see one OUTSIDE than living in a crate in a basement or

living room - I'm sure the dog would prefer it as well but that's my personal opinion of which NOBODY has asked me for.    It seems at the moment there is a

multi-state wide campaign going in several breeds to see how much damage they can do to Breeders Reputations and it all seems to be a WITCH HUNT.

Check out the top breeder of Giant Schnazuers and see all of the web-crap that has been posted about her?  Or if your really into a bunch of mud-slinging

and bull-crap then check out the Miniature Pinscher World - those gals can really get down and dirty.  How much is true?  Very little I imagine but whose to

say!

4.  AKC Suspension List - For any of you that THINK AKC is the only registry to use then I would direct you to the AKC Suspension List.  ALL of the

breeders there have been suspended for doing something wrong, unethical or fraudulent.   They were ALL AKC BREEDERS and I'm sure at one time

had puppies bought from them because they were AKC Breeders.  Bet those that have revoked AKC papers are rethinking their earlier misconception of

what they THOUGHT AKC papers meant.   Most are only Suspended and given a fine at which time they can come back into the fold and continue on with

business as usual.

5.  HEALTH - Who actually believes that a PIECE of paper issused by AKC means the dog is healthier?  I certainly hope there are VERY FEW folks that

niave.  Now show me a MPS VI piece of paper or another one that is GOOD FOR LIFE and not for 1 to 3 years and I'll consider that piece of paper

worth GOLD.

6.  PAPERS - How many breed PAPERS?  I don't breed PAPERS - I breed DOGS and I look for the BEST LOOKING, HEALTHIEST, BEST TEMPERED

ones around to use for breeding.  If your looking for PAPERS then they are a dime a dozen and are issued by 100's of Registries so you shouldn't have a hard

time finding the one you want.   Don't complain though when you can't get those papers to make your dog look any better, be any healthier or keep the dog

from biting the hand that feeds it.

7.  PEDIGREES - It's a FAMILY TREE and can be useful in the right hands by those who know what they have and are looking for.  It's useless to most

Pet buyers and most times useless to dog breeders that aren't in the loop with their breed and get all of the gossip about whose dog just flunked what test

and whose dog produced a puppy with a hereditary issue.   Nobody has asked for my opinion but personally I won't buy a dog without at least a 7 generation

documented pedigree.  I have to ASSUME that the pedigree is accurate and that if I do the research on it that I'll be spending my time in a worthy manner but

who is to say for sure.  I do know that seeing a Pedigree has kept me from purchasing quite a few dogs that I knew had Hereditary issues associated with the

bloodline - BIG NAME BLOODLINES so don't assume that just because you see a Red Line pedigree that it means quality.  The Show ring has NEVER

asked for a genetic evaluation of one single dog that walked through the gate. 

8.  Breeders - Oh the good, the bad and the evil - I can assure you they are all alive and well in the dog world.  The good ones do their very best to raise

quality dogs and be fair in what they are doing - do they have problems - you betcha - the difference is that they usually get slam-dunked for trying to share

their learning experiences and share their lessons of hard-knocks.  The bad ones hide, change their name - kennel name, change addresses and are usually

the ones talking about the OTHER breeders.  The evil ones are the ones who have no conscious, no desire to get better or do better and are usually the ones

that cause the rest of us to have to live with more legislation that will eventually stop all of us from being allowed to raise dogs.   These are the ones who give

who ALL a bad name with the help from some in the BAD ONE catagory. 

9.  Closing - Is one registry better than another - Not in my opinion as long as you understand their policies and what your getting - It's a PIECE OF PAPER.

Are show breeders better than ANY OTHER BREEDER - Not in my opinion as I've been on both sides.  The dog is the same quality whether it tip toes through

the show ring or sneaks out the back gate of your yard.  Taking it to the show ring WILL NOT make it a better dog but maybe a MORE RECOGNIZED one.

I have no issues with AKC, have never been suspended, fined or even contacted by them the MANY YEARS I did use them but I also don't think they are the

ONLY registry that Reputable breeders use.   I simply swapped when I started raising breeds that the AKC did not at that time register and it was easier just to

use one registry and show through that registry since they offered dog shows as well.    All of this is my opinion and as I've stated nobody asked me for it but

it's here for you to read or not read - YOUR CHOICE.  I also do not consider myself an English teacher so if I've misspelled any words please do not rake me

over the coals for it as I've seen other forums do when they apparently couldn't find anything else to complain about. 

We all have Choices - Thank God we live in the United States of America where sometimes we can still make our own Choices even though some feel the need

to condemn others for theirs. 

Hi

I just found your post about Breeders AKC/CKC.

I am a breeder and I love some of things you mentioned. Can you please contact me and let me know if I can use part of this on my website?

Private email me Please

bleumooncattledogs@yahoo.com

beaglebrat

Posts: 1370

QUOTE 11/2/2009 9:53:39 PM
We all know I can be "wordy" too. I would just like to say, why bother with any papers then? If they all don't mean crap. Why do any of us Register with any of the Registries? I COULD register my MIXED BREED puggle puppies with several different Registries including CKC.



I don't. Do you know why? Because they aren't worth the paper they are written on and I don't want to fool anyone in to thinking my Puggles are some sort of Pure bred dog.



Furthermore..... give a million reasons, the best dogs IN THE WORLD are Registered with AKC, and if you aren't Registering with AKC THERE IS A REASON, IT IS A RED FLAG, and 9/10 you have inferior dogs.



ENOUGH SAID.

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