"Conditional" AKC Registration

"Conditional" AKC Registration

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mobullybabies

Posts: 25

QUOTE 11/9/2009 12:11:34 AM
Does anyone know anything about "Conditional" AKC Registration?



I looked it up on their web site and it says somewhere in the dogs past the lineage can't be verified.



So, should a breeder disclose this information before the puppy is sold?

I just bought a puppy and got it home and the papers were Conditional.   I'm not happy but is this a standard thing that breeders can do or is this wrong?     I would think it is very wrong but I'm also not a big breeder.



Also, there is a long story to all of this but basically let me say I ended up with this dog from a breeder.   He was supposed to be an English Bulldog and when we got him he looks more like a cross breed - long legs, long nose, fairly skinny and his papers are Conditional.    They acted like I was crazy for being upset at what I received - since they owned both of the parents they knew he was a bulldog is what they told me.



Any advice?
christinastorla

Posts: 58

QUOTE 11/9/2009 9:37:08 AM
 Yes, they should and I believe they have to disclose limited AKC regestration. Their is alot of reasons they do that. 1. So you don't breed. 2. It is a flawed puppy, so it can't show and other reasons. Look the way I see it, if you buy a puppy, it's yours to do as you see fit! I don't have the right to tell you what you can and can't do whith your puppy! I buy a truck, you don't tell me when and where to drive it! Don't buy a AKC limited paper dog.
winddial

Posts: 52

QUOTE 11/9/2009 2:54:53 PM

Quote christinastorla:

 Yes, they should and I believe they have to disclose limited AKC regestration. Their is alot of reasons they do that. 1. So you don't breed. 2. It is a flawed puppy, so it can't show and other reasons. Look the way I see it, if you buy a puppy, it's yours to do as you see fit! I don't have the right to tell you what you can and can't do whith your puppy! I buy a truck, you don't tell me when and where to drive it! Don't buy a AKC limited paper dog.
Sorry but you have to buy the copy right to reproduce my bloodlines, no handouts.  So your telling me I should not restrict the breeding of the little runt puppy I have that would probably get killed during the birthing process should she ever have puppies? And that I should allow her to potentially pass on runty genetics?  Thats good for maintaining a breed isn't it.   I am easy to work with and don't hoard my my dogs full registration but I don't give it away either.  



You can buy a Ford pick up and drive it into a train if you want but Ford may get upset if start reproducing trucks from their blue prints.



Also, Conditional registration is NOT the same as Limited registration. Conditional is where there were some inconsistencies into bloodline of the dog and somewhere DNA or false claims were made.  They issue resulting puppies conditional registration. Conditional dogs can be bred but not shown.  This goes on for 3 generations and is determined by AKC, not the breeder.     
beaglebrat

Posts: 1371

QUOTE 11/9/2009 3:25:14 PM
Yes, I think a breeder should disclose exactly what type of registration they are offering. If it is AKC, UKC or other, people should know. They should know if it is Conditional or if it is full/limited.



On many of my puppies I give the option of full or limited, and 85-90% of people prefer limited, for a lessor price. I am much more picky about who gets full Registration, I can't tell you the last time I sold a puppy to another breeder, and it has only been hobby breeders that have a couple dogs.



It is funny this topic is mentioned. Just today I was helping a friend look for another breed of puppy. I know a fairly large breeder in the area had that breed, so I went on their website and was rather amused to find a *warning* on their  available puppies page.... I don't know if they were purposely directing it at me, or multiple breeders, but I definitely oppose everything they are saying.



This is what they say (spelling included) this is my local "competition"......so to speak.



THE
CONSUMER ALSO NEEDS TO KNOW WHEN YOU BUY A PUP ON LIMITED REGISTRATION
THAT MEANS THE [AKC] PAPPER ARE OF NO USE ENEY MORE IT MEANS THAT YOU
CAN NOT BREED OR SHOW THE DOG IN THE FUTCURE IF YOU WOULD DECIED TOO.



SO
YOU ARE PAYING A LOT OF MONEY FOR A DOG THAT YOU CAN BUY FROM THE POND
FOR $100,WHEN YOU PAY GOOD MONEY FOR A PUPPY YOU SHOULD HAVE A FULL
REGISTERED  PUPPY ,



AND A LOT OF THESE CONTRACTS GIVE A BREEDER THE
RIGHT TO TAKE THE PUPPY FROM YOU IF YOU DO NOT ABIDE TO THE CONTRACT,



WE
ALSO DO NOT BELIEVE IN MAKEING A PERSON SPAID OR NUTTER A PUPPY IF THEY
DO NOT WANT TO SINCE THEY ARE FINDING THAT SOME CANCERS ARE BEING ONSET
FROM THE SPIAD AND NUTTERING IN DOG KNOW AT YOUNG AGES,THAT SHOULD BE
YOUR DECISION TO MAKE WITH YOUR VET AND YOU.




beaglebrat

Posts: 1371

QUOTE 11/9/2009 3:30:51 PM
I do make it very clear what they are getting or not getting with their puppy. I do make people sign spay/neuter agreements on all pet puppies, and my Puggles, the males LEAVE neutered. I am willing to pay the additional money out of my pocket to make sure that these dogs don't reproduce because some careless pet owner just doesn't take them in for the surgery.



This "other breeder" has at least 3x's as many dogs as I have and probably 6-7 breeds. So with as many puppies as they sell per year, if all there puppies had puppies and so on, no wonder there is overpopulation.



Just because someone can afford to purchase a purebred puppy does not mean they are qualified to breed, and even show breeders will tell you that finding true "show family" homes are pretty hard to find.... in a lot of breeds.

winddial

Posts: 52

QUOTE 11/9/2009 3:58:46 PM
Thats funny Beagle, I know EXACTLY who your talking about.  They also have Pembrokes but I'm sure you know that.  They have made a bit of a laughing stock of them selves, the Spaid and Nutter stuff really makes them look like genius's.  I'm not their biggest fan.



I too don't give full to just anybody but if people are honest about them selves I don't mind working with them.  However it does cost more too but most people looking for a pet opt for the Limited to save a few bucks.  I do also disclose what they are getting and they are required to go over it in the contract and the details of each are explained on my website.  I do not have any conditional registered dogs either, try avoid fiasco's like that. 
mobullybabies

Posts: 25

QUOTE 11/9/2009 4:01:46 PM
Ok, I'm still confused.    If it goes back 3 generations and they have our dogs parents and I'm pretty sure they have their parents.   Does that mean they lied to AKC or how did they get found out?   Also, wouldn't that mean that if we used our dog to stud and got papers on his puppies, then we could use one of the puppies and the papers wouldn't be Conditional anymore?   Does this make sense?    Don't worry - we are NOT using this dog!   He doesn't look anything like an English Bulldog.   I'm just trying to get this figured out.
beaglebrat

Posts: 1371

QUOTE 11/9/2009 4:14:02 PM

Quote winddial:

Sorry but you have to buy the copy right to reproduce my bloodlines, no handouts.  So your telling me I should not restrict the breeding of the little runt puppy I have that would probably get killed during the birthing process should she ever have puppies? And that I should allow her to potentially pass on runty genetics?  Thats good for maintaining a breed isn't it.   I am easy to work with and don't hoard my my dogs full registration but I don't give it away either.  



You can buy a Ford pick up and drive it into a train if you want but Ford may get upset if start reproducing trucks from their blue prints.



Also, Conditional registration is NOT the same as Limited registration. Conditional is where there were some inconsistencies into bloodline of the dog and somewhere DNA or false claims were made.  They issue resulting puppies conditional registration. Conditional dogs can be bred but not shown.  This goes on for 3 generations and is determined by AKC, not the breeder.     
Oh my, yes they do! I live with in 10 miles of these people.



They also raise Boxers. I know they don't like what I do, and I don't like what they do.



They also live on a different main road, and they perpetually have signs up for all the different breeds of puppies they have available.



I am sure it is an irritant to a lot of other breeders in the area that I can sell my dogs for 3x's as much as they do-- but I also don't see them at any of the health clinics either.

beaglebrat

Posts: 1371

QUOTE 11/9/2009 4:19:39 PM

Quote mobullybabies:

Ok, I'm still confused.    If it goes back 3 generations and they have our dogs parents and I'm pretty sure they have their parents.   Does that mean they lied to AKC or how did they get found out?   Also, wouldn't that mean that if we used our dog to stud and got papers on his puppies, then we could use one of the puppies and the papers wouldn't be Conditional anymore?   Does this make sense?    Don't worry - we are NOT using this dog!   He doesn't look anything like an English Bulldog.   I'm just trying to get this figured out.
I don't understand what you are saying about registering that dogs babies. You can register puppies to a parent that has conditional papers. That is the point of the conditional papers.



Until the last few years, if through DNA TESTING by AKC, if a dog was found to have different parents, but still be purebred, the person owning the dog was out of luck.... despite the fact it was probably not their fault if they had purchased the dog from another breeder.



Now instead of completely having to scrap that dog from your breeding  program, you can still use the "conditional dog", but it's  puppies will be "conditional" and their puppies will be "conditional" and I believe those puppies puppies will be conditional, but after that.... the great great grand-puppies from the dog with the questionable genetics can then again have full unconditional registration rights.



So your dog is likely the product of a conditional parent or grand parent.

duke2014

Posts: 3

QUOTE 1/6/2014 1:01:14 PM
Hi, I was reading info on the "conditional registry" with AKC and someone was talking about a place where they are not doing things right and that they raise boxers also. I am running into the same thing with a kennel, boxer, the stud being conditional? The breeder did not tell me this over the phone. Can you tell me the name of the place where they raise boxers and you are finding conditional registries please? Thanks!
duke2014

Posts: 3

QUOTE 1/6/2014 1:09:17 PM

Quote duke2014:

Hi, I was reading info on the "conditional registry" with AKC and someone was talking about a place where they are not doing things right and that they raise boxers also. I am running into the same thing with a kennel, boxer, the stud being conditional? The breeder did not tell me this over the phone. Can you tell me the name of the place where they raise boxers and you are finding conditional registries please? Thanks!
if you can't specify here what the name of the place is that raises boxers with conditional registry, please email me at ts4819@att.com. Thanks!
duke2014

Posts: 3

QUOTE 1/6/2014 2:27:18 PM
This was in reply to what "beaglebrat" had to say, was wondering if I am dealing with the same place with conditional registries.
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