Backyard Breeders and puppy mills

Backyard Breeders and puppy mills

dihart

Posts: 322

QUOTE 1/6/2011 12:51:11 PM

Quote kathystone:

 OH HONEY! YOU ARE SO WRONG! First, I would never allow anyone in where my mom dogs are. Why? Because I don't know what germs they are carrying on their feet or hands. Perhaps they have just been at the local dog pound. Perhaps they went to a vet to see what can be done for their puppy who is dying of parvo. I don't want my mom dogs and pups exposed to extra germs.

  Second, professional breeders do their homework, go to seminars to learn more, spoend hours studying breeding charts to produce top of the line dogs, and don't hold a "regular" job as the 17 plus hour days they put in won't allow for them to be anything but a dog slave. Forget vacations!

 Turn in any breeder to the "humane society"? Why? Just because they breed dogs? Where do you think dogs come from? I would rather buy froma professional breeder who stands behind their breeding stock thatn from some idiot who thinks their dog needs to have a litter every few heat cycles. These kind of people may, like you, spend time socializing their pups( and exposing them to all sorts of disease) but do they stand behind their dogs? Not usually. Further, they do not get hips,eyes and other genetic problems tested for and eliminated. They just have one dog who they breed to whatever mut comes along.

  THIS is where many of the dog pound dogs come from. Professional breeders microchip their dogs and stand behind their dogs when they end up being at the dog pound for some reason. Professional breeders are able to keep their dogs in sanitary conditions, well cared for and well fed. Not like the dog who lives in a back yard where it is cleaned once in a while. 

 If the HSUS has their way all professional breeders will be run out of the US. And where will puppies come from? Mexico where they have NO standards for pet care. So all you have accomplished in your utopia is mut dogs of inferior quality or even worse abuse of the breeding dogs who make the puppies sold here. 

 Oh, and by the way, I run a small dog rescue. The majority of the dogs come from animal shleters and dog auctions. The shelter dogs are always the  in the worst  conditions and are obviously NOT well bred. The wellbred dogs don't go through either source.There is always a market for them even at an older age.

    Yes, there are substandard kennels out there and they should be closed down. But to be so biased against professional breeders is to be unable to understand the truth of the probelm of " pet overpopulation" which is people who should not have a dog in the first place, who buy a dog they keep in a cage all day while they are at work, or buy an unsuitable dog for their lifestyle. Ever see Marley and Me? Give me that dog for an hour and I will get him under control. Most people would have turned him in at the dog pound.Not the dog's fault. 
I wholeheartedly agree with and commend your informative response to one who is obviously living under the disillusion of mis-information that the HSUS and PETA spew forth constantly in order to get those dollars flowing in to ensure that your and my grand & great grand children are not even allowed to own animals, let alone eat anything but a vegan diet. We must fight their  actions with facts and not just be blindly led toward a lifestyle that will ruin our rights and options to own pets and eat meat and comsume animal products.

katiekat33

Posts: 53

QUOTE 1/6/2011 6:55:56 PM
Amen, Kathy; great post!  I couldn't have said it better.
irishred40

Posts: 1

QUOTE 1/6/2011 7:30:58 PM
Not to mention ... I don't want anyone at my home that I haven't met before without someone I do trust being with me.  May seem stupid, but do I really want a total stranger to have access to me and or my pups and noone to keep me safe?
bizzyb8

Posts: 2

QUOTE 1/7/2011 1:56:49 AM

Quote katiekat33:

I'd like to see your definitions for the terms "professional breeders," "backyard breeders," and "puppymills."
Me too!!!! What if you don't have a 'back yard.?' What if you raise dogs and have them 'beside' your house? Would you, then, be called a 'side yard' breeder? I've never understood this term. Anyone know the definiton? Really anxious to know what it it!!!!!!!!
bizzyb8

Posts: 2

QUOTE 1/7/2011 2:37:59 AM
Wow!! Well said and well written.....Straight to the point and 'pulling no punches!' I've seen all kinds of dogs/situations in my forty-plus years of raising dogs. One thing I've never understood is: Why is it so wrong to raise more than one breed at a time? One example I have noticed is: If you raise, say, Poodles, (which I use to raise) you may have 4 females and 2 males as your breeders. O.K. that's six dogs of one breed. Then....you have 1 female Yorkie and one male. One female Boston Terrier and one male. One female Boxer and one male. Totalling six dogs in all. The 'one' breed dogs and the 'multiple' breed dogs need the "same" amount of time, love, care, socialization, food, water, Vet care, and a clean/dry place to live. Now........what is the difference in having one breed or multiple breeds? I, myself, can see none. Most of you will say that no one needs that many dogs in the first place. I say to that: If you have the "time," the financial situation, the 'homes' for the dogs and the patience to give to each and 'every' one, there is "no" difference!! Not many, I'm sure, will agree with me. And of course we are all entitled to our own opinions! Right?
kathystone

Posts: 396

QUOTE 1/7/2011 10:05:18 AM
 "Back yard breeder" and  " Puppy Mill" are terms that some market researcher made up to inflame the public to hate certain groups of people  There is an insinuation that both are only "raising dogs for the money" and don't care about where the puppies go or how the breeding dogs are cared for. 

 Let me give you another case of inflaming the public. A man was charged with beating a dog to death wiht a baseball bat. He admitted hitting the dog on the head with all his force until the dog failed to rise again. Then for good measure, he kicked the dog as hard as he could in the ribs and then walked away. That was the story. Is your blood boiling yet? Death penalty for him right?!

 Ah my little kumquat! And now the rest of the story. The dog in question had bitten several children and adults in the past. He had charged and attacked the mailman repeatedly over time. Yet the dog was never out when animal control came by so they did nothing but warn the owner.

   That particular day a woman new to the area was walking her two kids to school. Both were kindergarteners, about 5 years old. The mom tried to pick up both children but the dog knocked her over, tearing the smaller child from her arms and proceeded to KILL the child by shaking her like a rag doll. The mom was screaming but no one would help her.

  This man jumped out of his car and ran to her aid. He beat the dog back with a baseball bat but the dog kept coming. Another person grabbed the mom and son putting them in his car as the dog repeatedly came after the man. When the police got there the man was checking the dog, who appeared to be unconscious by thumping his ribs with his foot. 

 AH! Your attitude has changed! Researchers use focus groups all the time to see what can sway the public to thier point of view. So next time you hear someone breeds dogs stop and think. If NO ONE breeds dogs where will you get your next puppy?
winddial

Posts: 52

QUOTE 1/7/2011 5:23:54 PM
There are so many misconceptions about professional breeders that most like gracie doesn't see through and never will because they refuse to look past the front page.  I feel like since dogs are my job, I spend more time devoted to individual care and learning about them, studying pedigree's, studying health test results, leaving no rock unturned in my never ending search of a better breed and better health standards. I don't spend so many hours a day concentrating on other stuff like a factory or desk job.  I don't go on vacation, I go to dog shows and seminars.  I study dog food nutrtional value's more than I study the food I eat. I have a website to inform buyers of what is expected of them, it has important information regarding the breed that can help not only my buyers but anyone looking for information on the breed such as predisposed breed related issue's and how to prevent them, what medications they can and cannot have, puppy parent information with health stats, diet information, microchip registration information, more thats too much to mention.   My knowledge base is much more advanced than someone who does not do this professionally, they "simply don't have the time to devote to it" doesn't that have a familiar ring to it? A breeder creating well bred puppies is similar to that of a any other hobby profesional, artist, mechanic, they genuinely love what they do but your not paying just for supplies or parts, your paying for their knowledge and expertise which is where they darn well earn their living. Money is not made with any animal business, it is earned.   I'm not going to lie and say I don't come out ahead on litters but I think I would honestly still do it even if I didn't just because I enjoy what I do.  Go ask Michael Angelo to go paint you a picture for there mere price of paint and canvas, he's probably gonna want a little compensation for his skill, a true breeder asking a dollar amount for a puppy is no different.

mopuppymom

Posts: 3

QUOTE 1/22/2011 5:33:07 PM
All I can say is I've been to large (professinal) and small kennels. Some people take care of their dogs great,and some not so great. We are what you call a back

yard breeder(I quess) We love and care for our babies!! I can't understand why

you big breeders have a problem?? Are you wanting all the market??? Most of kennell pups are sold to brookers,and shipped all over,,including pets stores,where most are put in a warehouse waiting for a pet store rep to come pick out the ones they want,what happens to the ones they don't want??

I want my pups that I have to go right into a loving home!! I make a little money,but I also get to love on my babies while they're with me!! So to me it just seems like the professional breeder I bet,doesn't have much time with all the puppies they have. So just let people decide how they want to buy  their next family member.
sixscanecorsos

Posts: 2

QUOTE 1/24/2011 3:58:35 PM
Many kudo's to you Kathy! You said it all very nicely!



I have been to some of the largest breeding facilities who produce champions and wonder how that facility is not considered a puppy mill. And I've been to some of the smallest kennels producing dogs that are as nice if not nicer than the larger facilites who just do not have someone to tuck them under their wing and show them the ropes.



Someone earlier said report people to the HSUS. Did you realize that The Humane Society of the United States gives LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of your donations to pet shelters? And HSUS's president says Michael Vick "would do a good job as a pet owner." The HSUS is a lobbyist group, who actually has little to do with placing dogs or their money into your local shelters. They like to throw bills on ballots and try to place their values onto others.
echo_alpha

Posts: 7

QUOTE 12/6/2011 10:22:17 PM
I suppose I am a backyard breeder having only one fe4male and one male wolf which means exactly one litter each year.  They are my pack/family and if anyone tries to mess with my wolves they might live to regret it.  My male is two years older than my female and she was obtained because my female lab was over sixteen years old  and wolves require company beyond their owner.  They produce one litter a year as nature intended and I had thought to check out this site to find GOOD homes for the pups. Will continue to observe here before deciding whether to list any puppies here.  Have sold the ones I have without any advertising at all, people observing when we have stopped at stores or wherever and inquired about obtaining one.  Doubt if I will make even break even but that is not the point.  I tell oeople that we are just debunking those "stories" Little Red Riding Hood told.  Have noticed that Wolf is not listed as an option on picture uploads or even Wolf  Hybrid so maybe I am in a wrong place.
nextdaypetsforumhelp
Moderator

Posts: 97

QUOTE 12/7/2011 9:52:40 AM

Quote echo_alpha:

I suppose I am a backyard breeder having only one fe4male and one male wolf which means exactly one litter each year.  They are my pack/family and if anyone tries to mess with my wolves they might live to regret it.  My male is two years older than my female and she was obtained because my female lab was over sixteen years old  and wolves require company beyond their owner.  They produce one litter a year as nature intended and I had thought to check out this site to find GOOD homes for the pups. Will continue to observe here before deciding whether to list any puppies here.  Have sold the ones I have without any advertising at all, people observing when we have stopped at stores or wherever and inquired about obtaining one.  Doubt if I will make even break even but that is not the point.  I tell oeople that we are just debunking those "stories" Little Red Riding Hood told.  Have noticed that Wolf is not listed as an option on picture uploads or even Wolf  Hybrid so maybe I am in a wrong place.
We do list Wold Hybrid in the picture upload.  You can view the previously uploaded Wolf Hybrid pictures here:



http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/dogs/dog_picture/1100366/





christinastorla

Posts: 49

QUOTE 12/7/2011 7:40:22 PM
1 question sent to me was how do I ship so cheap. I use a shipper and what little ballance comes from the puppy sell. Next is my puppies and co-breeders puppies are born next to my bed at my home! They have 100% human contact from birth. I let all my custemers come over. I have nothing to hide. I have been inspected by USDA and AKC. You can call me a back yard breeder but most everyone loves my way of breeding. When I retire a female from breeding, she stays with my co-breeders family for ever. No neglect, no just pooping out puppies for a buck, just happy family pets. I also train the new owners on all issues for free including breeding at their age of 2 years old. I have also bought back puppies and full grown dogs that I felt was being naglected or miss treeted by my custemers! Do you do that? Or puppy mills? Did you know it is also the responsablity of a vet to turn in bad breeders and owners? Do they? You could say they are just as bad wanting the all mighty buck insted of care of a pet! We are all in this together wanting to breed, care, buy, sell, and servive. It is up to us all to get the bad ones nailed to the wall, from pet owners to breeders, puppy mill or back yard, including vets who do let this happen! 
bobshort

Posts: 1

QUOTE 12/7/2011 8:56:09 PM

Quote jchamp52:

This is way off topic....but how in the world can you post on your website that your shipping fees are $200.00?  You mention temperate boundaries so I will assume you ship via Delta,  since Continental does not have temperature problems. Shipping fees with Delta have not been that low for over 5 years. And you still have the health certificate and kennel that are part of the shipping fee requirements??????? 
i don't think most people know what a puppy mill is .these are jeaoulas people that don't even care. a clean kennel lots of good food and love every day with extra running room is no puppy mill . it does not matter how many dogs you have . i have a kennel one male and two females and feed the best food on earth, that with love and respect with pictures sent to me periodically does not constitute a puppy mill
christinastorla

Posts: 49

QUOTE 12/10/2011 5:24:04 AM
Bobshort, your right. When and if I put mine in their kennel, they have at least 32 feet run by 15 and a heated building to go in and out anytime they want. I also free feed so the food is always there. It cuts down on food aggression if they didn't know, like not knowing how a shipper saves you money! They should look into it before opening their empty head! Also you can save a lot of cash by contacting or joining incentive programs from your dog food manufacture. I use

Purina. I guess, I a back yard breeder am teaching the puppy mills.
christinastorla

Posts: 49

QUOTE 12/10/2011 5:28:54 AM
Sorry I fogot because it seems some of you don't know! The law states no matter who you are or who you ship with, they still can't fly with temp below 25 or over 85!
dihart

Posts: 322

QUOTE 12/12/2011 11:14:00 PM
I think that you can ship somewhat over or under those temps if the airline climate controls all the way,  and it is not a snub nosed puppy (bully, pug type of dog)   
dianab28

Posts: 2

QUOTE 2/5/2012 11:40:04 AM

Quote kathystone:

 OH HONEY! YOU ARE SO WRONG! First, I would never allow anyone in where my mom dogs are. Why? Because I don't know what germs they are carrying on their feet or hands. Perhaps they have just been at the local dog pound. Perhaps they went to a vet to see what can be done for their puppy who is dying of parvo. I don't want my mom dogs and pups exposed to extra germs.

  Second, professional breeders do their homework, go to seminars to learn more, spoend hours studying breeding charts to produce top of the line dogs, and don't hold a "regular" job as the 17 plus hour days they put in won't allow for them to be anything but a dog slave. Forget vacations!

 Turn in any breeder to the "humane society"? Why? Just because they breed dogs? Where do you think dogs come from? I would rather buy froma professional breeder who stands behind their breeding stock thatn from some idiot who thinks their dog needs to have a litter every few heat cycles. These kind of people may, like you, spend time socializing their pups( and exposing them to all sorts of disease) but do they stand behind their dogs? Not usually. Further, they do not get hips,eyes and other genetic problems tested for and eliminated. They just have one dog who they breed to whatever mut comes along.

  THIS is where many of the dog pound dogs come from. Professional breeders microchip their dogs and stand behind their dogs when they end up being at the dog pound for some reason. Professional breeders are able to keep their dogs in sanitary conditions, well cared for and well fed. Not like the dog who lives in a back yard where it is cleaned once in a while. 

 If the HSUS has their way all professional breeders will be run out of the US. And where will puppies come from? Mexico where they have NO standards for pet care. So all you have accomplished in your utopia is mut dogs of inferior quality or even worse abuse of the breeding dogs who make the puppies sold here. 

 Oh, and by the way, I run a small dog rescue. The majority of the dogs come from animal shleters and dog auctions. The shelter dogs are always the  in the worst  conditions and are obviously NOT well bred. The wellbred dogs don't go through either source.There is always a market for them even at an older age.

    Yes, there are substandard kennels out there and they should be closed down. But to be so biased against professional breeders is to be unable to understand the truth of the probelm of " pet overpopulation" which is people who should not have a dog in the first place, who buy a dog they keep in a cage all day while they are at work, or buy an unsuitable dog for their lifestyle. Ever see Marley and Me? Give me that dog for an hour and I will get him under control. Most people would have turned him in at the dog pound.Not the dog's fault. 
I agree with you wholeheartedly!  I have a small kennel which is run as a family business so every member of the family is expected to mop the kennels everyday in addition to feeding, watering and playing with the dogs, who by the way ALL have names.  My dogs are all kept current on shots and grooming and genetic testing.  There is never more than 3 to a kennel and get daily exercise.  I can tell you everything about the dogs medical history and personality.  Never would I allow anyone to wander around my grounds without proper covering over their shoes!  My goal is to go above and beyond what everyone else is doing, yet I frequently get calls from people saying they can get puppies cheaper elsewhere!  These are the people that allow backyard breeders and puppymills to exist!  People say they want quality but don't want to pay for it! 

heaventree

Posts: 11

QUOTE 3/8/2012 2:58:44 PM
I've owned labs for 25+ years. I began with my first breeding in late 2009 (my first post on this forum). My female is exemplary of the breed in her demeanor, looks, and temperament and a family pet (sleeps with us, goes to our cabin with us, etc.) I bred her to the son of a six-time world champion and got a beautiful litter of pups... one is already getting titled from a customer who bought him. The female I kept from the litter just had her first litter at two. When she was twelve weeks old, I purchased a puppy stud, and his sister. They are now all two years old. I was getting about 90 calls per year (last year) and was only able to fulfill the hearts of happy customers this year (6 pups). They all live indoors with us in our beautiful home, the puppies have their very own puppy nursery, and they get socialized with our family and our adult dogs. I don't let people in until the pups have had their shots and/or if they agree not to go to other kennels/etc. first. PARVO can be transmitted on the soles of shoes, from your mailman, or from other dogs. Someone posted that they are a slave to their dogs. THIS IS SO TRUE! If you are taking care of them and your house, yard, and pups, you don't have much time for anything else. And I think anyone, whether they own one or two dogs, are a "backyard" breeder, puppy mill, or show kennel, can be considered a "puppy mill" if they are not taking care and spending time with their pooches. I know of a few kennels that claim they are doing this or that but work full time jobs. Unless they are paying others to care for their dogs (or family volunteers), to me they are in the same boat as the dreaded "puppy mill." However, breeders with any number of dogs should not be considered puppy mills if they are personally taking care of them or if they pay others to care for their dogs (including large kennel/breeding operations). 
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