THE TRUTH ABOUT HOME RAISED PUPPIES ~MODOG

THE TRUTH ABOUT HOME RAISED PUPPIES ~MODOG

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katiekat33

Posts: 53

QUOTE 7/31/2009 10:38:21 PM
i
katiekat33

Posts: 53

QUOTE 7/31/2009 10:41:30 PM
I am sad and dismayed at the negativity displayed on both sides of the issue - so many people are smug as if their way is the only way and any other ways of raising puppies is wrong. This is true for BOTH SIDES.
jchamp52

Posts: 261

QUOTE 7/31/2009 11:12:05 PM
Conversations such as the several above are what make me so very, very scared to ask any questions. Breeders can be really cruel, the more I learn the more I realize how dumb I really am.  I am not lucky like many of the other breeders - I was not born knowing everything, I struggle through this breeding stuff every day.  I TRY to do all that is correct as a breeder, I raise my babies in my house, none are in wire cages, and I am putting my vets kids through collage, pay his car payment and make the monthly morgage on his house....and that is just the regular dog care stuff!!!

I am always trying to improve my bloodlines, but I will be honest, I have been to the shows and many owners and  handlers are beyond Awful...I can understand a handler being upset if the dog does not do "their thing" that day, but trust me if I ever saw a handler snatch my puppy up by the lead and toss them in the carrier....one or the other of us would go to jail.

I have learned more about how to "cheat" on the papers and "lie" about the bloodlines than you would ever believe, simply by listening to normal show-breeders conversations. By what they say I am proud to have dumb, back yard dogs that I cant afford to show. OMG has anyone done the figures to have a handler show your dog, the flat rates do not sound too stiff,  it is all the add ins that will kill you -- entry, motel, gas, parking and picture fees the list just goes on and on.

I have determined I will try to improve my line first then try for a Champion breeding then maybe I can use those puppies as partial payment to finish one of the babies.  Plans are easy to make, but when you have one income (SSI) plans do not always work out the way you hope. 








sthielman

Posts: 1

QUOTE 8/1/2009 12:23:54 AM

Quote gomodog:

Hi,
I like most of the changes Nextdaypets.com made to the site, however one issue still troubles me and many other breeders a great deal.
Your first bit of advice on how to find a good breeder say to look for one who keeps HER (suggesting woman breeder?) pups in her home.
Firstly you are directing them at home and hobby breeders. The last place they'll find a reputable experienced pet producer.
Secondly, besides the obvious sanitary reasons, it's against state and federal laws to raise puppies in your home. (Why all the bad advice?)
A nonporous conditioning facility is where puppy training should be conducted.
Unattended puppies are safer and more comforatable in a nice, spacious, state of the art kennel. One of our custome built kennels (housing 14 dogs) cost $13,000.00 and you suggest Mrs. Garage or Mr. Backyard might be a better source for healthy purebred puppies?
You can do better guys.
edited per forum rules


Who in the "H" are you ? What the "H" are you talking about ? Any and I mean any puppy, large breed or small breed is NOT & NEVER WILL BE better raised in a concrete, fenced "KENNEL" I do not care how much a "Kennel" cost. Pups are just babies, they need their mothers, they need love, handling, loving, cuddling. OMG what are you even suggesting?  Sanitary ? what makes you think a Kennel is sanitary ? Once & only once in my life I placed my pet "dog" in a kennel for a vacation & I will never / ever do it again. Kennels are not any cleaner, all they do is hose them down sometime even with the animal inside. Public / Private/ what ever ! YOU ARE WRONG.



I would also like to know what planet you live on, In what state is it against the  law to have puppies at home??  I want to make darn sure I never live there. If you can prove any such Law, Please advise us I'm sure most of the population of that state will start plans for moving out. Your either nuts or simply stupid!



And another note!!!!!!!!!!! Puppies should not be left unattended. PERIOD.

Until they have grown enough to understand & start training.

OMG IS ALL I CAN SAY : STAY OUT OF THE PUPPY/PET BUSINESS ALTOGETHER!! SELL YOUR KENNELS TO HORSE FARMERS



You could have a bigger heart & actual care about the animals ! Not the all mighty buck!
dihart

Posts: 322

QUOTE 8/1/2009 7:04:05 AM

Quote katiekat33:

I am sad and dismayed at the negativity displayed on both sides of the issue - so many people are smug as if their way is the only way and any other ways of raising puppies is wrong. This is true for BOTH SIDES.
 You are right Katiekat33.      it is like this all the time, and I hope most potential new owners who use NDP do not see the ugliness reflected here, that they just never see the tab for or skip the "pet lovers" forum altogether.

     
dihart

Posts: 322

QUOTE 8/1/2009 7:12:24 AM
"Conversations such as the several above are what make me so very, very scared to ask any questions. Breeders can be really cruel, the more I learn the more I realize how dumb I really am. ...... I am putting my vets kids through collage, pay his car payment and make the monthly morgage on his house....and that is just the regular dog care stuff!!!

I am always trying to improve my bloodlines, but I will be honest, I have been to the shows and many owners and  handlers are beyond Awful...I can understand a handler being upset if the dog does not do "their thing" that day, but trust me if I ever saw a handler snatch my puppy up by the lead and toss them in the carrier....one or the other of us would go to jail.

I have learned more about how to "cheat" on the papers and "lie" about the bloodlines than you would ever believe, simply by listening to normal show-breeders conversations. By what they say I am proud to have dumb, back yard dogs that I cant afford to show. OMG has anyone done the figures to have a handler show your dog, the flat rates do not sound too stiff,  it is all the add ins that will kill you -- entry, motel, gas, parking and picture fees the list just goes on and on. ........"



All very true also, the show ring is it's own "old boys club". And many have the attitude that if you cannot afford a show dog, you should not have a purebred as a companion, heaven forbid if you ever decide to have a litter from your fully registered-non-show-dog....

gomodog

Posts: 19

QUOTE 8/1/2009 2:16:54 PM
Doing it the right way, is never easy.

***

May the fruits of the Spirit empower those who try.






jchamp52

Posts: 261

QUOTE 8/1/2009 4:20:04 PM

Quote dihart:

"Conversations such as the several above are what make me so very, very scared to ask any questions. Breeders can be really cruel, the more I learn the more I realize how dumb I really am. ...... I am putting my vets kids through collage, pay his car payment and make the monthly morgage on his house....and that is just the regular dog care stuff!!!

I am always trying to improve my bloodlines, but I will be honest, I have been to the shows and many owners and  handlers are beyond Awful...I can understand a handler being upset if the dog does not do "their thing" that day, but trust me if I ever saw a handler snatch my puppy up by the lead and toss them in the carrier....one or the other of us would go to jail.

I have learned more about how to "cheat" on the papers and "lie" about the bloodlines than you would ever believe, simply by listening to normal show-breeders conversations. By what they say I am proud to have dumb, back yard dogs that I cant afford to show. OMG has anyone done the figures to have a handler show your dog, the flat rates do not sound too stiff,  it is all the add ins that will kill you -- entry, motel, gas, parking and picture fees the list just goes on and on. ........"



All very true also, the show ring is it's own "old boys club". And many have the attitude that if you cannot afford a show dog, you should not have a purebred as a companion, heaven forbid if you ever decide to have a litter from your fully registered-non-show-dog....

OK, all fixed - not starting anything.
maoseger1010

Posts: 6985

QUOTE 8/1/2009 9:45:15 PM
Personally (I don't know) but who cares if there was another breed crossed 10 generations ago to get the Merle color.





Are you trying to start something?
jchamp52

Posts: 261

QUOTE 8/2/2009 12:05:20 AM

Quote maoseger1010:

Personally (I don't know) but who cares if there was another breed crossed 10 generations ago to get the Merle color.





Are you trying to start something?
Did not think that sentence through....fixed it.
christinastorla

Posts: 58

QUOTE 8/2/2009 2:59:41 PM
Spoken like a true puppy mill! Who do you think your fooling? It is not against any laws as a hobby breeder. Where adults and the puppies get owners full attention. Their is so much wrong with your thinking that the DOLLAR signs are in your head! Written by a hobby breeder who loves our pets!
bayroo

Posts: 2

QUOTE 8/2/2009 8:37:07 PM
I've just read through this post and  it is VERY easy to figure out who have the puppy mills.

Clue #1   The breeder doesn't want the potential buyer to come to their "home" or breeding facility, to pick out their puppy.  Hint : RUN don't walk away.

Clue #2   The breeder has more dogs and puppies than they can give personal attention to. Hint : WHO has 25 children and makes them sleep in the garage, even if it did cost $13,000.00.

Clue #3 The breeder who makes claim after claim that their puppies are better quality than any other breeder. Hint :  Have them show you the list of EVERY other person on the planet that raises the same breed stating that, YES your puppies are far superior.

Clue #4 The breeder does not have the time or the desire to care for her/his four legged children in the way all living creatures should be cared for.  Hint : Quickly hang up the phone or click on another website. Sooner or later you will run across the breeder with the puppy that is meant for you.

MY THINKING  :   If you do not desire to obtain a puppy of the caliber you deserve then YES, feel free to keep the puppy mills in business. No one has to prove themselves to us through mere words. In the end someone else will be judging how we lived our lives. 
gomodog

Posts: 19

QUOTE 8/12/2009 11:33:12 PM

Hi c-lane & readers,

 

Do I know that pride is a sin? Yes. I teach Sunday school and I’m quite familiar with the Word, thank you. If stating provable facts or explaining our procedures is what you are calling prideful, you are mistaken. Our opening comment even states that God makes the puppies so great. Its okay to boast in the Lord and tell the truth and rebuke evil. Your spiritual council is unwanted and frankly you placing judgment and punishment upon me is a clear sign to me, where you stand in terms of spiritual stature and understanding. Let’s stick to the subject of dogs. Shall we.


 
You make it sound like our buddies are miserable or mistreated. Not so. They truly are happy pampered well mannered pets and we love them dearly. They do more in a day than most home alone pets do in a week! It’s hurtful to have folks call us Jerks or say we’re full of manure or a puppy farmer when we volunteer our time working with local Humane society and spend tons of time and money pampering our pets each year. Puppy farmers don’t receive awards or have their kennels featured in popular magazines. They certainly don’t post video footage of their facility and let customers and reporters visit. Give us a break. Our readers are smarter than that.


 
If you’re so confident of our animal neglect just report us to the authorities and stop making these false public accusation. Our address, driving directions, license numbers everything you need is on our website. Which by the way, most of the folks that you say are visiting to see a puppy mill are adopting and or leaving some very nice comments on our site survey. We even have a couple comments about c-lane and beagle brat’s “super bladders” and “pee proof home raised show puppies“. (Those are not my words, by the way.)


 
As for the poor flea ridden, worm infested dog with hereditary defects you adopted, that did not come from MODOG nor anyone with half a heart, or a lick of experience with breeding dogs. You stated that the dog died 4 years later due to the type of care the breeder provided for your animal. Then “in the same breath” as you like to say, proclaim it died from hereditary defects. These are two different stories neither of which have anything to do with me or my kennel.


 
You and I both know fleas and worms are easily controlled so don’t even through that card at us. Another bit of advice to you and our readers might be to purchase puppies from reputable licensed breeders who have health certified dogs that consistently produce healthy puppies. Good breeders have tons of referrals and certificates of health, Champion filled pedigrees etc. Most (including us) even offer health and/or a satisfaction or your money back guarantee to eliminate the risk of receiving a nightmare like c-lane got. I am sorry about your misfortune c-lane and I pray you reported that idiot to the authorities, or Oprah or somebody!


 
I said nothing ill of the American Kennel Club. Opening comment on our site is “The AKC is great! My mention of using other registries may have offended you, but this is America and we do have a choice. In regard to champion sires, according to statistics the majority of show dog’s career ends after one year in the ring. Most successful show dogs become….guess what, producing kennel dogs. I live 25 miles from 4 AKC champion Akita studs that live in what I consider less than sufficient living conditions. That’s not the destiny we have in mind for our puppies and that’s why we cater to average income families with forever homes.


 
I have said all I care to say in regard to home and hobby breeders verses licensed animal care facilities. This has been my first ever forum experience and it has been both a nuisance and a blessing. You may see me jump in on some more intriguing topics later on, but I bid this third rate debate Farewell.
Sincerely,
gomodog




 

beaglebrat

Posts: 1371

QUOTE 8/13/2009 5:16:41 PM
GoMoDog, if anyone thinks your way of dog breeding is good, I really don't care what their opinion is in the least. They are obviously bottom of the barrel  and they don't count in my opinion. They are probably puppymills themselves. You notice how most normal people on this thread are reacting.



I went to your lovely  Purebred Chihuahua, Maltese, Poodle, Shih Tzu, Designer and
Akita site. Just to look again. Not impressed.



I can tell by the things I read that you think you are all that, and that you are looking for different ways to make money by teaching people "your secrets". Please don't. I really don't think you are qualified.



I always help people FREEly when asked, but I would never have thought about charging for it. I always thought that was kind of what went with be a responsible dog professional. Helping and mentoring those that know less than you for the benefit of the dogs. I give my clients as much information as possible because it is the right thing to do.



Oh and here is a little tip I will give you for FREE since you think you are so "big time" and your website is "all that", you need to optomize your website, because I actually took the time to google and yahoo "Akita breeder, Akita breeders, Maltese breeder, Maltese breeders, and Chihuahua breeder, Chihuahua breeders.



On the big search engines your website isn't even close to being on the map-- as in the top 20 pages. Your little website doesn't even exist to most people unless they are getting to it through other ads like this one.



You really should invest some money in fixing that. I'm on page 1 and page 7 for my breeds and I do advertise, but I also get a lot of business directly from people searching for breeders on the internet.




beaglebrat

Posts: 1371

QUOTE 8/13/2009 6:00:24 PM
A little more serious constructive criticism since you request it on your site. I don't like the back-ground or all the little sayings.



It is also very difficult to actually look at your available puppies. You shouldn't need instructions to work the "remote" to see the puppies. I am sure you lose people right there. 



You need to lose that whole tv remote thing, I know you probably think it looks clever and original. It is not direct enough to keep average people's attention.



Then once you have made your selection, you click on to this whole other "gallery page" of instructions that is just too busy looking, and the little animated jiffs don't help. And you have to go through all that, just to look at the puppies.



I would lose all that. It's like you have so many distractions about how great you are, that you aren't providing a lot of the necessary information in a simple easy to read manner.



I would also guess that the majority of educated people from big cities don't care for your site, or think less of you after reading it. That quaint-folksy -- awe-shulks type of theme that runs through out your website is not impressive to them. By your site, they will just think you are another dumb dog breeder.



Example from site:



"You can try using this fancy gadget thingy to do something." below it is "All I know for sure is: No Cats, One Ticket each, and I got to pee".



Wow!



You also have a lot of "coming soon" or "under construction". You do that too much and it just looks like you  are still working on things and the site isn't "done". You click on links and a large portion are that way. It is best not to even offer the page instead of dead links.



Not a whole lot of testimonials either for being in business as long as you say you have been, and for selling as many puppies as you do per year. You may want to actually contact some people that have been satisfied with their dogs and ask if they will write you a nice e-mail with a picture attached.



Speaking of photos I think it is actually rather touching to put your family photo on the internet, but not so bright showing pictures of your really cute children. I say that in all honest and sincerity, you don't know who is looking at your website. There could be some sick people out there and they know exactly where your kids are located and what they look like. There is no need for your kids to be on that site. Please think about it. If nothing else take down your street address and just keep up your city and State. What you are doing isn't smart or safe.



I could go on and on here. I am really good at this and you may want to listen to the things I am suggesting. Or not. It's up to you.

jchamp52

Posts: 261

QUOTE 8/13/2009 9:28:32 PM

Quote beaglebrat:

A little more serious constructive criticism since you request it on your site. I don't like the back-ground or all the little sayings.



It is also very difficult to actually look at your available puppies. You shouldn't need instructions to work the "remote" to see the puppies. I am sure you lose people right there. 



You need to lose that whole tv remote thing, I know you probably think it looks clever and original. It is not direct enough to keep average people's attention.



Then once you have made your selection, you click on to this whole other "gallery page" of instructions that is just too busy looking, and the little animated jiffs don't help. And you have to go through all that, just to look at the puppies.



I would lose all that. It's like you have so many distractions about how great you are, that you aren't providing a lot of the necessary information in a simple easy to read manner.



I would also guess that the majority of educated people from big cities don't care for your site, or think less of you after reading it. That quaint-folksy -- awe-shulks type of theme that runs through out your website is not impressive to them. By your site, they will just think you are another dumb dog breeder.



Example from site:



"You can try using this fancy gadget thingy to do something." below it is "All I know for sure is: No Cats, One Ticket each, and I got to pee".



Wow!



You also have a lot of "coming soon" or "under construction". You do that too much and it just looks like you  are still working on things and the site isn't "done". You click on links and a large portion are that way. It is best not to even offer the page instead of dead links.



Not a whole lot of testimonials either for being in business as long as you say you have been, and for selling as many puppies as you do per year. You may want to actually contact some people that have been satisfied with their dogs and ask if they will write you a nice e-mail with a picture attached.



Speaking of photos I think it is actually rather touching to put your family photo on the internet, but not so bright showing pictures of your really cute children. I say that in all honest and sincerity, you don't know who is looking at your website. There could be some sick people out there and they know exactly where your kids are located and what they look like. There is no need for your kids to be on that site. Please think about it. If nothing else take down your street address and just keep up your city and State. What you are doing isn't smart or safe.



I could go on and on here. I am really good at this and you may want to listen to the things I am suggesting. Or not. It's up to you.

I have been trying to locate the rules for the forum and don't know exactly how to find them (my computer/NDP site skills showing again)

There are questions I wish to ask beaglebrat about websites and I really do not want to be blocked right off the bat.

I am fairly sure posting a website address here is a NO-NO.

I would like your constructive criticism, I would just prefer it not be aired on NDP if you decide it is awful. I do have a web designer but the layout, colors and design are all my own choice. 
beaglebrat

Posts: 1371

QUOTE 8/13/2009 10:19:12 PM
Here is one of my lessor used e-mail addresses. I will be sure to look for your e-mail. I am usually more tactful, but still honest about my opinion. I agree I wouldn't want my site posted on here either because you are never going to satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time, even if you are the best breeder in the world, someone isn't going to like something.



Hopefully Gomodog learned his lesson about posting your info on these type of things. It is generally more negative attention than positive. 



cowgirlbarbie7@yahoo.com



jchamp52

Posts: 261

QUOTE 8/13/2009 10:45:20 PM

Quote beaglebrat:

Here is one of my lessor used e-mail addresses. I will be sure to look for your e-mail. I am usually more tactful, but still honest about my opinion. I agree I wouldn't want my site posted on here either because you are never going to satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time, even if you are the best breeder in the world, someone isn't going to like something.



Hopefully Gomodog learned his lesson about posting your info on these type of things. It is generally more negative attention than positive. 



cowgirlbarbie7@yahoo.com



I just sent you an email, thank you
c-lane

Posts: 7

QUOTE 8/17/2009 11:22:50 AM

Gomodog,
You sure do blow a lot of hot air dont you? I would like to know what kind of church you teach at so that I can avoid your type of worship! You talk about me jumping on here and judging you when you are the one who came on here with the first post talking smack to next day about there articles that were written by the ASPCA, then you go even further and start talking more smack about hobby breeders. So who is judging who first Gomodog? Your "buddies"! how would you like to live your life crammed into a box no bigger then your self, forced to stand and lay on a wire floor. You have shoes they dont! You say folks call you jerks, who else have to ticked off? I have not read one post on here yet where someone called you a jerk unless I missed that part. Look at the replies you are getting, that should say something right there. You can do all the volunteering you want and donate all the money you want but it does not change the fact that are what you are "puppy mill". You go on and on about your customer testimonies and I only seen a few. Like Beaglebrat stated, for someone who has been in business as long as you, you should have more testimonials!.  And for the record I said my home stays clean and sanitized, I never stated my puppies do not have accidents so quit turning thing around in hopes to make you look like the good guy here. As for the poor flea ridden, worm infested dog with hereditary defects I adopted, he may not have come from Gomodog but he came from a person "just like you" You stated that the dog died 4 years later due to the type of care the breeder provided for your animal. Then “in the same breath” as you like to say, proclaim it died from hereditary defects. These are two different stories. How did i provide you with two different stories? I picked the dog up at the airport at 9 weeks of age, he was nothing but skin and bones with a gut full of worms. After getting him home and settled we bathed him, the water was jet black by time we were done, at that point it revealed all the fleas and ticks that had been feeding on him. See Gomodog he was so dirty that the dirt was actually hiding the fleas and baby ticks. Next we took him to the vet, it was actually the very next day after picking him up that we went to the vet and that is where he was tested positive for all worms and treated. At 10 weeks of age we noticed he walked funny, vet checked him out and said his hips where loose. 9 months of age we X-rayed his hips, confirmed server HD. Then his shoulders, then cancer all in a 4 years time. So please tell me where I told 2 different stories? You and I both know fleas and worms are easily controlled so don’t even through that card at us. The point was, he came from someone "like you" and they did provide a 2 year health guarantee which they never honored! I said nothing ill of the American Kennel Club. Opening comment on our site is “The AKC is great! That is not true and you know it, you have since then changed your website around. You stated that even most show breeders prefer those small registries among other things. In regard to champion sires, according to statistics the majority of show dog’s career ends after one year in the ring. Most successful show dogs become….guess what, producing kennel dogs. I would like to see the statistics you are reading because most show dogs dont make it to championship until 2 years age unless they show 3 or more times a month. If a show dogs carrier ends early it is usually due to injury or the dog did not care for it so they did not push the dog. Of course after they finished they became producers, what on earth do you think "confirmation" showing is for. It is to evaluate breeding stock. Just a big difference between show breeders breeding and what you call breeding. Now that being said about your comment's I would also like to add this. You come on her running your mouth about Next Day and then Hobby Breeders. When you get the reaction that you have gotten you want to run crying but before you leave you take what everyone has said and turned them all around to make you look good. Im sorry but people can see right through your charades. Like beaglebrat said, your website needs alot of work, You dont even have pictures up of your adults. I think Beagle brat pretty much covered that area! Google Puppy Mills and see what you get, I guarantee you they look just like you. Only difference is, you are a higher class facility but the animals are still treated the same.
 


 

runningridge

Posts: 102

QUOTE 8/28/2009 10:32:05 AM
Well actually folks FEDERAL LAW does state that if you sell $500.00 or more

worth of dogs or own more than a certain amount of breeding dogs or sell X amount of puppies in a year that you must be USDA licensed.

USDA states that any facilities (*which includes your home if that is where you

choose to raise your puppies) MUST be 100% wash downable and done so

on a daily basis.  I've yet to find one single HOME that could meet those

requirements.   Do I think folks should not raise dogs in their home - Not my decision to make but I have been to some homes where the people were

actually living in a kennel as there is no way it could be called a home and

was in "BAD NEED" of being burn to the ground.  In those situations, the

dogs and the owners would of benefited from OUTSIDE facilities. 

Federal Law also states that you must abide by the Animal Welfare Act.

How many breeders actually follow these rules - Very few I imagine.

The kicker is that it is folks exactly like yourselves that are downing other people

that put these laws in to place in order to try to control other breeders and in some cases it's the AR's trying to stop breeding all together.

There are Cities, Counties and States now that are cracking down on hobby breeders, home breeders and shutting them down.  Dallas, Texas comes to

mind where it is now considered a business to sell a dog and you must have a

business license to do so even if your selling from your home and that business

license is basically impossible to get as you have to have your home rezoned for

business and then they say you can't live in it as well as that is a violation of another ordinance.   Now of course they aren't enforcing this across the board

evenly and fairly but once your under their radar you can kiss your dogs good-bye.  Run an ad in the Dallas paper and your more than likely to get a visit from

animal control.  Now, ask yourself, how did this town get to this point - SOMEBODY didn't like the way somebody else was raising dogs, jealousy, disgruntled puppy buyer - Who knows - but the bottom line is that there isn't

any ONE WAY - RIGHT WAY to raise puppies. 

I could easily go take photos of 20 HOME breeders today that live in horrible

conditions and post them all over the net and talk about HOME BREEDERS

but why would I want to put a worst light on breeders than they already have.

Why can't we live in harmony - live and let live. 

It's always best as well to KNOW what your talking about before you feel the

need to say/type it.  

USDA will gladly send you a packet - order one - read the information -

including that thick book that will just boggle your mind and then MAYBE

you'll understand a little more of what YOUR SUPPOSE to be doing by LAW.

How many HOME BREEDERS report their income?  Very few I imagine.

If Kennel Breeders were to take the attitude that I see in a lot of Home Breeders

they could cause problems and probably shut down a majority of the Home

breeders that feel the need to condemn them.   Laws aren't always fair and

goodness knows many aren't even sensible but they are there and can be used

against you should somebody choose to do so.

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