| upperg |
| Posted 11/28/2007 9:44:30 PM |
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Active: 11-19-2007
Posts: 56
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how do i find out if the puppy is from a puppymill or not? |
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| vickie123us |
| Posted 11/28/2007 9:53:59 PM |
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Active: 06-29-2007
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Are you going to going to there home to pick your puppy up? Or
are you having the puppy shipped? Are you buying your puppy or adopting it from a shelter or rescue. |
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| upperg |
| Posted 11/28/2007 10:05:10 PM |
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Active: 11-19-2007
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im going to get it shipped, unless there's a papillon that's about 8-10 weeks old that is around los angeles california, and is less than 700$ since 850$ is my max budget and i have to save 150$ on crates and equipments and stuff |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 11/28/2007 10:25:55 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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| Quote upperg: how do i find out if the puppy is from a puppymill or not? |
Many people will not agree with the technical term as they belive anyone that breeds more than one breed is a miller, these are facts not my personal opinion.
Puppy mills keep dogs in cramped cages and are in very poor conditon, the Puppies are often the worst examples of the breed and they dont care about anything but the sale.
Commercail breeder usally has a profesional set up and even though they can not give the dogs personal attention the dogs are generally well kept, vetted and fed a quality food, the only thing lacking is personal attention.
Show breeders are focused on producing the best quality Puppies and will put the most care in what they produce often making them the prefered method of getting a pup but they dont like to share with the general public.
Hobby breeders sometimes show, the care about what they produce and do health testing, they usally have one breed they fancy and are active in clubs.
Back yard breeders slap two pure breeds together giving little consideration to what they are producing with limited if any testing, buying a healthy Dog from a byb is 50/50 odds i would say.
Please read how to identify a good breeder that is posted on every puppy page on this site so that you can chose the best, also read how to avoid scams.
Shipping can work for many people but has its risk. I can not stress enough not to pay with money gram or western union. |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 11/28/2007 10:33:11 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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Millers are smart at pretending to not be millers, my favorite thing to do is click to see other adds, google email and phone numbers given as if they have ads for other Puppies hidden they are probally not legit. I would really be warry of anyone having more than two breeds, three i would be really concerned with.
If they have a kennel name you can always try the better buisness beuro and department of agriculture, a USDA licence should raise concerns but I would further look into it before discounting it as a cattle rancher or any livestock farm that sells has to have a USDA licence.
Im sure if you try hard enough you can find a breeder within driving distance, I know you want a puppy but its worth the wait to get the right one. Ive waited 2 years to get the pup im still not sure if Im going to be able to get, but if I do, man o man is he worth it. |
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| upperg |
| Posted 11/28/2007 10:48:30 PM |
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Active: 11-19-2007
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the one im trying to see if its safe. he has only 2 breed for selling. i looked up his name and number on the internet, they match and its only on 2 website, nextdaypets and another Dog selling site. he priced his papillon and yorkshire terrior at 500$ each. papillon is 500$ shipping included but in description it says 200$ shipping not included, but yorkshire terrior is 500$ not including shipping. the owner claim to have forgotten to remove that detail in the description and have just changed the papillon to 500$ shipping already included because i just emailed him. any thought on this? the Dog is 8 weeks old so its ready to ship, hopefully |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 11/28/2007 10:52:07 PM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
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"Show breeders are focused on producing the best quality Puppies and will put the most care in what they produce often making them the prefered method of getting a pup but they dont like to share with the general public."
What? They don't?
That's crazy.
I think the whole point here is just as you say, that they care about what they do, they are "preferred" when it comes to buying a quality puppy and, quite simply, supply doesn't meet demand.
Since they care about what they do and how many they produce and who they sell to, they don't crank Puppies out just because every Tom, Dick and Harry wants one. It doesn't mean that they don't like to "share with the general public." It often does mean, however, that the general public, in many cases, is not a suitable owner and maybe doesn't pass the screening that a responsible breeder does. Not to mention that responsible breeders often have very long waiting lists, and John Q Public usually doesn't want to wait, and wants instant gratification.
I usually get about 200 puppy enquiries a year, for eg. If I have one litter a year or less, which is often the case, it doesn't mean I don't like to share. It means I care about my breed and I'm careful about what I do. The homes for my Puppies will be carefully selected to the best of my ability. If I don't provide one to everyone that wants one, it doesn't mean I don't like to share.
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| schnauzers4life |
| Posted 11/28/2007 10:55:34 PM |
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Active: 10-14-2007
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I personally think shipping is a big risk. But it is not my decision. I would look for a local breeder that you can go visit and see the conditions the dogs are in (where they sleep, health) and judge whether the breeder is knowledgeable. 
I'm no Dog expert so I might not be correct, it's just my advice.  |
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| upperg |
| Posted 11/28/2007 10:59:07 PM |
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Active: 11-19-2007
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i told you, there are very little Dog breeder around where i live, im in california,los angeles i've been looking for months for a papillon breeder around my area, i only found one in california and its like 5months old already |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 11/28/2007 11:23:50 PM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
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| Quote upperg: i told you, there are very little Dog breeder around where i live, im in california,los angeles i've been looking for months for a papillon breeder around my area, i only found one in california and its... |
I typed in the breed and the state and came up with a ton of Paps for sale where you live.
If money is tight, perhaps you should think of rescue. Find an older pup that has had all its shots and neutered. |
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| upperg |
| Posted 11/28/2007 11:25:07 PM |
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Active: 11-19-2007
Posts: 56
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Edited by Gbat |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 11/28/2007 11:54:35 PM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
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| Quote upperg: Edited by Gbat |
You are really risking it by shipping a puppy by way of the internet. All kinds of scams going on these days. If you insist get vet and previous purchasers references and ask for new pictures of same pup.
If you have the money to ship surely you can drive to pick up a pup in your state. It would be much better to be able to see the parents and living conditions and talk to the breeder in person.
There are also advantages to getting a pup a little older. The training will be a little easier hopefully and you will have a better idea what the pup will look like at an older age. |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 11/28/2007 11:56:37 PM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
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USDA approved is a red flag to me. That usually means that they breed so many dogs that they must be inspected, and/or that they sell to brokers and pet stores and therefore fall under a law where they must be inspected.
I wouldn't purchase there. |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 11/29/2007 12:05:15 AM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
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The one year health guarantee is a joke. Most problems don't show up when the Dog is still a puppy. Contracts like this are designed to get a breeder off the hook since most problems will happen after a year of age. Some problems can't even be checked for until the Dog is 2 years old.
There is no mention of any health testing done on the dogs they breed.
There are no titles on the dogs. And quite frankly, they don't look like they could earn any if they tried.
It's a classic backyard breeder. They even say they are just breeding because they "love animals". Well, sorry, that just doesn't cut it when upwards of 12 million pets are being euthanized annually. There should be better and more meaningful reasons to bring more of them into the world. |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 11/29/2007 12:08:52 AM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
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pay very close attention to what Mary says - she is absolutely correct
everything you say about this "breeder" screams puppy mill or byb to me.
there is absolutely no difference between commercial kennels & puppy mills
byb's are on a much smaller scale but also could care less about where their Puppies go, they just want your money & are of no help after the sale
reputable, responsible breeders do not ship puppy's. you have only to go thru threads on here to see how people write in boohooing about their shipped puppy has parvo, cost them thousands & now its dead
of course not every one but many do.
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| upperg |
| Posted 11/29/2007 12:27:09 AM |
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Active: 11-19-2007
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hmm... i trusted that site for a while.... guess not huh. well can any one of you find a list of papillon that are listed in california, los angeles? |
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| upperg |
| Posted 11/29/2007 12:35:54 AM |
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Active: 11-19-2007
Posts: 56
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i cant seem to even google it |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 11/29/2007 7:01:16 AM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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perhaps share wasnt the best word to use when it came to that, it is very hard to get a puppy from a show breeder, because like you said, good breeders are very choosy and there are not enough Puppies to go around.
The only reason Im able to get this Dog im hoping too is not because the breeder doesnt like me, but rather good friends with my mentor, if not for that I wouldnt stand a chance. Hes 5 months old and screams champion, Mary if you would like I would love to show you a picture of him if you would like to see him. |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 11/29/2007 7:39:10 AM |
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Forum Moderator
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6716
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| Quote upperg: hmm... i trusted that site for a while.... guess not huh. well can any one of you find a list of papillon that are listed in california, los angeles? |
I just typed in "Papillon pups for sale in cal" and got a pretty big list. This site also has a Papillon breeder.
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| AngelZoo |
| Posted 11/29/2007 8:49:38 AM |
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