| chuckees |
| Posted 8/6/2007 1:18:50 AM |
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Active: 08-06-2007
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I cannot find the specific breed I want near my home and if I buy one, it will have to be shipped to me. Would that be like overnight UPS? Overnight air? I know the pups have to be at least 8 weeks old but how can I tell if I'm getting from a good breader and not a puppy mill? I need major advice on this because it's quite a bit of money as well. Any help and information is appreciated.
chuckees |
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| lganio |
| Posted 8/6/2007 9:12:52 AM |
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Active: 12-29-2006
Posts: 1179
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| Quote chuckees: I cannot find the specific breed I want near my home and if I buy one, it will have to be shipped to me. Would that be like overnight UPS? Overnight air? I know the pups have to be at least 8 weeks... |
Depending on the type of pup you get 8 weeks may be too early. They are flown by airlines. That is a big contraversy and many people have varying opinions. My opinion is that you should not purchase a Dog without first meeting the breeder as well as one of the pups parents. I think RB's want to meet the person who is taking one of their pups, and may even want to do a house check. Can you find a RB within driving distance? That would be my recommendation. Also, pups shipped at 8 weeks aren't fully immunized and they could get sick. JMO |
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| RESCUEWENCH |
| Posted 8/6/2007 1:33:50 PM |
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Active: 01-24-2006
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| Quote chuckees: I cannot find the specific breed I want near my home and if I buy one, it will have to be shipped to me. Would that be like overnight UPS? Overnight air? I know the pups have to be at least 8 weeks... |
did you check teh akc breeder list - or breed organizations?
shipping n dogs you never met - didnt see the breeder is asking for trouble.
what bred are you seeking and waht state are you seeking in? maybe we can help you find an RB in your state?
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| chuckees |
| Posted 8/6/2007 2:42:51 PM |
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Active: 08-06-2007
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I'm wanting an olde English Bulldogge and I live in Virginia. They all seem to be bred in the midwest; Minnesota, Missouri, Kansas, Idaho, etc. I found one in Tennessee; however, that was still about 300 miles from my home. We are talking $2000-$3000 for a puppy. How would I check a breeder out?
Chuckees |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 8/6/2007 8:28:34 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
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many airlines won't ship in the summer.
you understand these are not a registered breed with AKC. they are simply a mixed breed
they have been manufactured by puppymillers, as shown by the states where you said the most were.
I would suggest you look for another breed. |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 8/6/2007 9:17:07 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
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There have been many threads on this subject in fact I believe there was a heated thread with LOTS of information on shipping. Some people think it is safe other's do not. Some airlines have had 0 pet deaths this year, another 3, and one has had 6. Not all have been the fault of the airline but 'natural causes'.
I am not going to pretend to know about 'Olde English Bulldogs', but as a breeder they 'LOOK' healthier.
I can also tell you though, I don't think there is any way they can be LESS HEALTHY than regular English Bulldogs. Bulldogs are ranked #1 for having hip dysplasia 73% tested HAD DYSPLASIA. 39% tested had abnormal elbows. They are ranked 29th of the breeds to have Patella problems. That is not including the breathing problems, the elongated pallet problems and the SEVERE ALLERGIES and demodex that they are prone to.
In fact I can not think of a more unhealthy Dog than English Bulldogs. I love the looks of the breed. Unfortunately generations of breeding JUST FOR THE LOOKS have created an unhealthy mess. |
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| RESCUEWENCH |
| Posted 8/6/2007 10:35:18 PM |
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Active: 01-24-2006
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blah blah blah. look who is back - and on a thread about designer mutts & puppy millers ( internet puppy millers !) wow what a COINCIDENCE!!
IMAGINE THAT!
poster you just listed the majority of puppy miller states .
- because this is NOT a pure bred Dog you will NOT find a responsible breeder that breeds them.
people breedig designer mutts are out to make money and you are playing russian roulette - you can get a REAL genetic nightmare for that 2K..
why not just get an english bull Dog from a responsible breeder?
true the breed has issues as do many pure breeds.. problem is the millers & bybs found out about 10-12 years ago the english bull Dog was worth a lot to peopl that wanted thm & thus really started destroying the breed.
responsible breeders are working on fixing it .
there are ways to tell the difference between bybs rbs & millers - do you know how?
we can teach you.
what are you looking FOR in a Dog ? that can help?
XRW
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 8/6/2007 11:23:13 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
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Prove that anyone is testing bulldogs. Back it up with 'facts'. I say that very few People are testing bulldogs.
Here is the OFA link to prove it:
http://www.offa.org/stats.html#breed
Look how few evaluations have been done on this breed. Shameful if you ask me. If any breed needs hip testing, it is obviously bulldogs. Yet there have only been 383 tests done in the last 30 plus years that OFA has been around. |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 8/7/2007 5:10:00 AM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
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| Quote beaglebrat: There have been many threads on this subject in fact I believe there was a heated thread with LOTS of information on shipping. Some people think it is safe other's do not. Some airlines have had 0 pet... |
You are correct in that English Bulldogs are prone to many health issues. They are a man made breed through and through and it shows in their health.
Because of their big barrel chests and they narrower hind quarters they are prone by design to have hip and shoulder problems. Because when they shortend the face of the Dog (through selective breeding) they were not able to shorten the nasal cavity and intstead just pushed it all back into folds behind the face, breathing can be a problem.
Pallet,hip,shoulder,allergies,breathing problems,eyes,and heart issues are all problems with English Bulldogs.
Good breeders are doing what they can not to breed dogs with known heart, allergies and pallet problems but it runs so deep in the breed its often hard to avoid.
Buyers should be warned before buying this breed, its costly to buy and costly to own.
I do believe that some breeders have started testing and selective breeding to try to improve the over all health of the breed. Instead of just breeding for looks. However I can't provide you any proof. And they are clearly in the minority.
The Old English Bulldoggy is a bigger Bulldogs that I believe was created from mixing an American Bulldog and an English Bulldog. The breeders say it is to get back to what a Bulldog was ment to be in looks and temperment.
I personally don't care for the aggressive, protective temperment of the OEBD myself. These dogs are massive and very hard to handle even when trained well. Not for a first time owner. As for health issues..they haven't improved much by mixing the two dogs. They are still prone to many of the same problems.
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| MJA1103 |
| Posted 8/7/2007 8:20:52 AM |
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Active: 11-09-2005
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| Quote chuckees: I'm wanting an olde English Bulldogge and I live in Virginia. They all seem to be bred in the midwest; Minnesota, Missouri, Kansas, Idaho, etc. I found one in Tennessee; however, that was still about... |
If you truly want this mix and are willing to spend that much money on one, then taking a drive of 600 miles round trip should not be an issue. You need to meet the breeder, see where the pup lives, etc. Does this breeder have a contract? What does it say about the health issues? Does this breeder have a health guarantee? Wondering about shipping should be the least of your worries. |
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| RESCUEWENCH |
| Posted 8/7/2007 9:01:30 AM |
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Quote maoseger1010: You are correct in that English Bulldogs are prone to many health issues. They are a man made breed through and through and it shows in their health.
Because of their big barrel chests and they narrower... |
and i also agree that RB's of this breed are working on trying to avoid these issues .
that is what REAL Rb's DO .
I am sure its not easy - and no way am I very knowledgeable about teh bred as Mao is .
but - RB's want there dogs to be healthy and longitivety is one of those goals.
( in my breed its a major goal)
just because something was ruined - doenst meanwith proper breeding careful genetic study it cannot be fixed.
IMHO i think teh english bull has a lOT against it anyway becasue of teh way theyare built.
but BYBS helped ruin teh bred by NOT breeding carefully nor checking genetics in lines for generations.
personally - i think as it stand right now,
the breed is too expensive to buy & to expensive to keep healthy.
how does one PROVE RB's are working on TRYING to rectify many of the heath issues with this breed?
i cant without posting links from RB's of this breeds websites ( which is not allowed)
I dont know anything about the OTHER breed - mao seems to know alot about it.
doesnt sound like a Dog i woud want personally - NOT pay 2 or 3 K for atall.
JMHO
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 8/7/2007 10:40:38 AM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
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Here is a crazy question. If 'Responsible Bulldog Breeders' are getting hips tested and the like where are they getting them tested at? And is it as 'good' and reliable testing as OFA, which has 3 vets looking at each dogs x-rays?
I mean they definitely are NOT sending them in to OFA, because there have only been 380 some in the last 30 years. That is good, bad or otherwise. |
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| MJA1103 |
| Posted 8/7/2007 12:35:41 PM |
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Active: 11-09-2005
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Again...Shipping should be the LEAST of the OP's worries. If a breeder can't/won't guarantee health .... |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 8/7/2007 2:24:39 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
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their own information says they are half EB & HALF ?? bull mastiff, pit bull, american bull dog!
pit bulls are mixed to begin with, but how do you get any uniformity when you are mixing four breeds together?
what a bunch of crap geezsh |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 8/7/2007 2:57:33 PM |
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Forum Moderator
Active: 02-20-2005
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| Quote beaglebrat: Here is a crazy question. If 'Responsible Bulldog Breeders' are getting hips tested and the like where are they getting them tested at? And is it as 'good' and reliable testing as OFA, which has 3 vets... |
Not crazy at all and my answer is simple, I don't know. I spoke to breeders trying to improve the over all health and reduce the numbers of Bulldogs produced with heart, eye and breathing issues. I did not address the hip and shoulder issue because that is outside my scope of knowledge.
I can tell you that I've owned many bulldogs and have never had one that had hip or shoulder problems. Although genes play a part so does environment. I made ramps for my dogs so they did not have to do stairs and I flat out did not let them climb stairs before they were a year old. Even after a year I was careful with allowing them to climb stairs and jump on and off things. I'm not claiming this is a cure all but it can't hurt.
Bulldogs are not the healthiest dogs in the world, anyone buying one should know that going in. They should expect to have health issues and they should understand they will not live long lives, but even knowing all of that... I still loved my English Bulldogs and wouldn't have missed owning them for the world.
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| francescaandmiles |
| Posted 8/8/2007 8:31:37 PM |
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Active: 08-08-2007
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| Quote chuckees: I cannot find the specific breed I want near my home and if I buy one, it will have to be shipped to me. Would that be like overnight UPS? Overnight air? I know the pups have to be at least 8 weeks... |
not a good breeder a real Dog lover would hand diliver because they get packed for days in a small cage     |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 8/8/2007 8:46:08 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
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| Quote francescaandmiles: not a good breeder a real Dog lover would hand diliver because they get packed for days in a small cage |
Why do people who know nothing of shipping continue to make comments on this subject.
You couldn't be more wrong. I guess they may be in a cage for 24 hours or so if they were coming from Europe (ask RW more about that).
Standard air shipping in the continental USA is done SAME DAY. Michigan to the east coast from airport to airport is normally 4-6 hours. MI to TX, 6 hours, to California, 6-10 hours. MI to Alaska 8-12 hours.
If there are emergencies or delays, they are REQUIRED to take them out, and they are placed overnight in a boarding kennel. This has NEVER happened to any of my Puppies in 5 years. I did purchase an adult from Texas and she had a delay due to thunderstorms and she was kenneled overnight. She arrived safely and no worse for wear. |
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| RESCUEWENCH |
| Posted 8/9/2007 12:26:18 PM |
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Active: 01-24-2006
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Quote beaglebrat: Why do people who know nothing of shipping continue to make comments on this subject.
You couldn't be more wrong. I guess they may be in a cage for 24 hours or so if they were coming from Europe (ask... |
i would guess the answer to your question is simply :
many people do NOT like the idea of shipping
many people do not have a busines that involves shipping live animal all over the country, thus they wouldnt have teh obvious experiences YOU have as not many people here are shipping hundreds of pups a year .
and - food for thought, many people have a different opinion on the safety of shipping that differs from YOURS.
you act as if your an expert on shipping?
to be an expert you must have to be shipping a LOT of puppys , correct?
so what are YOUR stats ? in YOUR puppy business?
say -
how many pups do you ship yearly , and how many have had any problems during the year?
the ratio would be a good help if you want to say your a shipping expert, no?
this naturally is a catch 22 question, as you do NOT want to admit what TYPE of breeder you are, and by stating how many puppys your shipping - will certainally open you up to probable red flags about your claim of being an RB.
you cant have it BOTH ways - you are one of the 5 types of breeders , rb BYB budding( or small scale miller) or hobbist.
OR the lazy JQP that is too ignorant to alter the dogs and breed for the simple reason the Dog keeps getting knocked up. ( i highly doubt that fits you)
the amount of pups you ship will give a definate clue to your title.
so you may want to answer carefully ,
now if your NOT shipping MASS amounts of pups you cannot possibly be an expert on shipping.
so which is it??
sign me -
just curious ...
XRW |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 8/9/2007 12:40:31 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
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It's not a catch 22 at all. I have said that I have an AVERAGE of 6 litters per year. I would say average litter size is 8 = 42 Puppies per year.
Of those I ship probably 35 each year x 5 years of shipping = 175 Puppies shipped, around about.
Better than that, I am a shipping expert so I have no less than FIVE other breeding friends that have asked me to help them ship their Puppies. I between all of them, I have probably shipped as many of theirs as mine, so 200 Puppies over the years.
So that would be nearly 400 Puppies in 5 years. NEVER ONE PROBLEM. NEVER ONE ARRIVING ILL.
I have also had dogs/Puppies shipped to me, over the years with no real bad experiences.
That is why these threads irritate me.
Does that make me an expert? To me, yes. |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 8/9/2007 12:56:21 PM |
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Forum Moderator
Active: 02-20-2005
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Quote beaglebrat: It's not a catch 22 at all. I have said that I have an AVERAGE of 6 litters per year. I would say average litter size is 8 = 42 Puppies per year.
Of those I ship probably 35 each year x 5 years of... |
Wow you produce 42 Puppies a year.. 210 in five years.
I bred and showed English Bulldog Puppies for 8 years and only produced 94 Puppies. Heck I thought they were a lot of work. I'm pretty sure I couldn't have handled 210.
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