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UABR vs AKC |
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| bigshoe |
| Posted 4/19/2007 4:37:55 PM |
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Active: 04-19-2007
Posts: 2
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I am trying figure out how reliable UABR is. It seems to me that anyone that wants to register, and claim pedigree for a litter might be able to do so, since from what I read, there is no background check.
I am considering buying a puppy from a registered member/breeder, and so long as nobody has complained about them, it seems like there is no means to validate the 'purebred' puppy. Can anyone help me with input, either positive or negative?
Thanks |
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| teenieweeniepups |
| Posted 4/19/2007 9:25:52 PM |
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Active: 04-14-2006
Posts: 6
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There is always a debate about this subject. The conclusion that seems to be is just because it is AKC doesn't mean it is better or any better quality. It depends on the breeder and their values and what they do to better the breed. You have AKC dogs that are very poor quality. There are UABR or ACA, ETC that are better quality. To be honest if you are not going to show and you are more interested in a pet it doesn't really matter. Just make sure it is a reputable breeder!!!
Good Luck |
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| velmadobe |
| Posted 4/19/2007 9:38:29 PM |
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Active: 03-15-2006
Posts: 297
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| Quote teenieweeniepups: There is always a debate about this subject. The conclusion that seems to be is just because it is AKC doesn't mean it is better or any better quality. It depends on the breeder and their values and... |
It does matter who they are registered with. In the USA any AKC registered breed should be registered with the AKC - if they are not, then that is a red flag to me. AKC registration is NOT a guarantee of quality, but not being AKC registered makes me suspicious as to why not.
The best thing to do when looking for a purebred puppy is to contact the National club for that breed and get a list of breeders. National breed clubs have a code of ethics for their members ..... does not mean that they all follow them 100%, but it is the best place to start. |
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| LoveablePuppies |
| Posted 4/19/2007 10:10:09 PM |
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Active: 12-20-2005
Posts: 401
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| Quote velmadobe: It does matter who they are registered with. In the USA any AKC registered breed should be registered with the AKC - if they are not, then that is a red flag to me. AKC registration is NOT a guarantee... |
I think having more the one registry in a country keeps everyone on their toes and hopefully a little more honest. Having one registry allows them to monopolize the market. I think being AKC registered now days means crap. Especially where AKC's largest money donator is a puppy meal name the Hunte Corporation!!! Most of their Puppies are AKC registered and regularly checked by AKC Reps.
Quote:
"Any AKC Breed should be registered with AKC."
Well and AKC breeds actaully originated from some where else not AKC. |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 4/19/2007 11:11:40 PM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
Posts: 399
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| Quote LoveablePuppies: I think having more the one registry in a country keeps everyone on their toes and hopefully a little more honest. Having one registry allows them to monopolize the market. I think being AKC registered... |
Keeps them on their toes? How?
Let's look at it this way -- contact any national breed club in the world and they will never have heard of or recognize the UABR or whatever was mentioned. AKC is the recognized national breed club the world over.
I would never purchase, breed or sell a Dog that wasn't recognized by the national kennel organization. In the US, that's AKC. |
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| FunnyBunny |
| Posted 4/20/2007 5:31:13 AM |
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Active: 02-17-2005
Posts: 5770
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Of course there is a lot of debate on registries. It's very understandable being that a registry such as the CKC will register a Dog as long as there are photos of the front, side, and back. I for one do not support any registry. Why not? Here's why the AKC in my opinion also stinks:
http://network.bestfriends.org/truth/news/12049.ht...
The Hunte Corporation is the leading supplier of puppy mill Puppies to stores like Petland. Many websites regarding this are found online. They allowed Andrew Hunte membership in the GSDC of America, and the AKC. In other words, they can kiss my patootie. AKC is no guarantee of quality, nor is any other registry. The registry is irrelevant, it's the breeder. Many people won't purchase a Dog without it being AKC registered. What does that tell you? Sort of along the lines it leads people to believe that they're better quality if they're AKC registered, when that is false as the others have stated. I really don't think any attention should be paid to the registry if you are not going to show the dog. Check out the breeder, ask all of the right questions, review their contract, see the puppy in person, see the parents, see the conditions that the Puppies are staying in, the health certificate, the vaccination papers, etc. Just make sure you are purchasing from a reputable breeder. Reputable breeders will be willing to provide these things, and if you've found yourself a reputable breeder, then the registry shouldn't matter unless you are planning on showing. |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 4/20/2007 10:35:16 AM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
Posts: 399
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| Quote FunnyBunny: Of course there is a lot of debate on registries. It's very understandable being that a registry such as the CKC will register a Dog as long as there are photos of the front, side, and back. I for one... |
"They allowed Andrew Hunte membership in the GSDC of America, and the AKC"
That's false information. Individuals are not members of the AKC. Andrew Hunte is not a "member of the AKC". And the AKC would have no say over him becoming a member of the GSD club so that's not their problem.
There is something to be said for getting into bed, per se, with puppy millers like the Hunte Corporation. As distasteful as it is (and I don't totally agree with it), it does allow the AKC to inspect and monitor the Hunte organization by promoting registration of the Hunte Puppies. In that respect, it is good for the Puppies to some extent. However, as I recall, I thought that whole deal fell through due to public outcry? |
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| FunnyBunny |
| Posted 4/20/2007 7:31:54 PM |
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Active: 02-17-2005
Posts: 5770
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Quote MaryAndDobes: "They allowed Andrew Hunte membership in the GSDC of America, and the AKC"
That's false information. Individuals are not members of the AKC. Andrew Hunte is not a "member of the AKC". And the AKC... |
"In fact, AKC has welcomed the Hunte operation which is said to generate nearly a million registrations per year. Therefore it is apparently fine for
a breed club to welcome him, too."
Almost a million registrations a year? I worded it wrong, but it is obvious that the AKC doesn't give a flying crap about anything. They're still a registry, charging to register the animals. Do you know how many puppy mills have AKC registered Puppies. That's just another way to get more money out of them. It doesn't matter if they monitor the Hunte Corporation or not. They know good and well what the Hunte Corporation is and does. What about the 61 Puppies that died in a fire on a truck? They are transported left and right. Andrew Hunte even boasted about his new incinerator to burn the bodies of Puppies that don't make it. I know the AKC has no say over the GSDC of America, I was just stating a fact on Andrew Hunte. The conditions can be all fine and well, but does that mean that the Puppies are healthy? Does it mean that the parents are kept in good conditions or that the Puppies were when they were born? The Hunte Corporation is a BROKER. They get their pups from puppy mills. Their facility might be clean, and up to code, but where they get the Puppies. I can guarantee you they are not. Puppies regularly die during transit, from heat exhaustion, and freezing temperatures. What is the AKC gonna do about any of it? Nothing...they will embrace him with open arms because there are a million registrations a year from him. Are they going to try their best to do something about it, or would they rather rake in the approximate 20 million dollars they get? It's disgusting, and I will not support the AKC when they couldn't give a rats  about what is going on. He registers with AKC, he makes more money, which means so does the AKC. I don't trust any of them...not a one. |
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| velmadobe |
| Posted 4/21/2007 12:09:05 AM |
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Active: 03-15-2006
Posts: 297
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Quote FunnyBunny: "In fact, AKC has welcomed the Hunte operation which is said to generate nearly a million registrations per year. Therefore it is apparently fine for
a breed club to welcome him, too."
Almost a million... |
and do you think that those other registries care more than the AKC?? LOL! The reason so many puppy millers have gone to other registries is because they can't even manage to pass AKC inspections - so they go to another registry that could truly not give a rats ass what conditions the Puppies are raised in OR how the bitches are kept.
For the most part, the general public is clueless about registration and what it means in terms of quality (nothing). At least with the AKC, there is a pedigree (good bad or indifferent). Many of the other registries will register a Dog as a breed with absolutely no knowledge of the pedigree of the dog. It is a joke.
The AKC cannot stop puppy mills from being in existence. They can require inspections to ensure a minimum standard of care. The only people that can stop puppy mills is the general public........... stop buying puppy mill Puppies. and they will go away. I'm not holding my breath that puppy mills are going away, but I sure as heck would like to know that they are subject to inspections from more than the FDA. |
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| FunnyBunny |
| Posted 4/21/2007 5:10:03 AM |
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Active: 02-17-2005
Posts: 5770
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| Quote velmadobe: and do you think that those other registries care more than the AKC?? LOL! The reason so many puppy millers have gone to other registries is because they can't even manage to pass AKC inspections - so... |
As previously stated, I don't support ANY registries. Not the AKC, CKC, UABR, NKC, APR, etc. I don't think ANY of them care, not even the AKC. Sure, they will inspect the Hunte Corporation, but as I said before, what about the puppy mills that his Puppies are coming from? The AKC is a load of bull just like all the others. They're still a registry interested in money. I don't care if sometimes they are strict. Regardless of what anyone says, the registry doesn't mean squat. What matters is the breeder, their breeding stock (the dam and sire), the health of the pups, the testing that the parents undergo, the premises, temperament, conformation, etc. The AKC is just a name that people use to say their dogs are high quality. I have a CKC registered Miniature Pinscher with a 5 generation pedigree and she is of show quality other than uncropped ears. Because she is CKC registered doesn't mean that she came from a puppy mill or anything. After rescuing Boogie, I came into contact with the breeder who no longer breeds Min Pins, they were appauled that she wasn't well taken care of, and she was in fact a reputable breeder, with CKC registered dogs. You see, it doesn't matter what registry papers the Dog has. If my post had been read thoroughly, you would see that I don't support any of the crap registries. They are all a load of that regardless of what anyone says, doesn't give a crap about the animals, only the money that they rake in, and Andrew Hunte is proof of that. Of course they wouldn't want to keep him from registering. As I stated before, that's approximately 20 MILLION dollars that the AKC makes a year from him. How honest can the AKC be when they're raking in that much moolah? They would be talking about their biggest money maker, who just happens to be the largest puppy mill broker to pet stores. They sound dandy to me! |
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| bigshoe |
| Posted 4/21/2007 7:20:36 PM |
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Active: 04-19-2007
Posts: 2
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First, thanks to all expressed their open and honest opinions. Although there were no exact answers, all were food for thought.
I do agree that all 'clubs' are full of digested puppy chow, and only interested in the almighty dollar. Although I am only looking for a pet, I worry about poor breeding where it relates to health. My last Dog was genetically predisposed to many more illnesses than originally thought. After a couple of years of his suffering, we sadly had to put him down. I do not want to go through that again.
I realize that even the best breeders aren't a guarantee of health, God's Will comes first, but I am trying to mitigate the chances. Thank you all again for your thoughtful insight. |
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/21/2007 9:05:50 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
Posts: 4801
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Quote bigshoe: First, thanks to all expressed their open and honest opinions. Although there were no exact answers, all were food for thought.
I do agree that all 'clubs' are full of digested puppy chow, and only... |
Really, you should pay more attention to the breeder than the club. There are good breeders in every club, and bad breeders in every club. You need to find out if the pup's parents are health tested, if the breeder offers a genetic health guarantee for at LEAST 2 years. Most genetic issues can't be diagnosed until about 2 years old, so lots of breeders out there are trying to look good by offering a 1 year, knowing that that promise isn't worth the paper it's written on.
It's always best to be able to pick up your puppy in person, and that way you can meet the parents and breeder face to face. |
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| FunnyBunny |
| Posted 4/22/2007 4:56:58 AM |
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Active: 02-17-2005
Posts: 5770
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Quote bigshoe: First, thanks to all expressed their open and honest opinions. Although there were no exact answers, all were food for thought.
I do agree that all 'clubs' are full of digested puppy chow, and only... |
http://www.barkbytes.com/b4ubuy/qtaskb.htm
The top picture is creepy, but these are questions that should be asked to a breeder. Do some research, find out what to look for and what the "right" answer should consist of. The health of the parents should be noted and asked about, ask to see any vet records, ask to see the vet records of the puppy (which should ALWAYS be included), review the premises, etc.
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.ht...
That website will give you a bit of insight into what a reputable breeder does, and what they don't do. It compares reputable breeders to backyard breeders. If there are any red flags that go off in your head, follow your instinct and look elsewhere. Pet stores should always be a no go, someone mass producing Puppies. someone with more than 3 breeds (and even 3 is a lot to handle), someone that won't let you visit the premises, reluctant to show you any vet paperwork, don't want you to see the parents, etc. Do your homework, find a reputable breeder, and you should be alright. There is no way to tell what can happen in the future, but with certain genetic defects and such, you can speculate on that based on the history of the parents. The newspaper isn't the greatest place to find a puppy, or even websites like this. Reputable breeders do advertise contrary to what people may say because some on the waiting list that reputable breeders should have, may have moved onto greener pastures while waiting for the pup of their dreams. It may sound like a lot to watch out for, and it is, however it is best for you and the puppy. |
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| RESCUEWENCH |
| Posted 4/23/2007 11:37:12 AM |
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Active: 01-24-2006
Posts: 7081
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yes i send back my GSD's akc papers and marked them "will NOT be a part of your organization that is promoting huge puppy millers ie- HUNTE CORP"
from now on i will ONLY buy IMPORTS - registered through the SV ( in my breed)
my Dog still has him SV registration.
BUT i wil NEVER buy anouther akc registered Dog again NOR will i even join the GSDCA ever again.
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| CelticGlory |
| Posted 4/23/2007 1:12:10 PM |
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Active: 06-17-2005
Posts: 644
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I didn't know what UABR meant, so I checked it out via google.
It means United All Breed Registry. Does anyone know anything about them?
Though I won't do shows in other countries I really want to register with the UKC, CKC, and FCI, does anyone know if people are allowed to do that even if they don't show in those countries?
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| MJA1103 |
| Posted 4/24/2007 11:41:38 AM |
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Active: 11-09-2005
Posts: 3406
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This is what I found so far about UABR:
United All Breed Registry Advertises free registration of adults when you register a litter. Caters to the commercial breeders. Started "Gold Label Pets" for commercial operations, and promotes retailers.
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| mitch702 |
| Posted 4/28/2008 11:51:04 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2008
Posts: 1
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My Dog is UABR and so far seems to be very healthy, however i do not believe she is pure bred like her papers claim she is. She is a black and tan Dachshund with legs twice the size of a normal Dachshund. She also has a white patch on her chest which i was told also indicates that she is not a pure bred, but i am not sure how reliable that source is.. I personally think she is mixed with miniature pincher because of her long skinny legs. My family has raised dachshunds for years and we have never had one that looks like mine. I have no idea what to do about the situation or if i can even do anything.. hope this answered something?? |
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| jyates75 |
| Posted 4/28/2008 12:26:25 PM |
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Active: 04-17-2008
Posts: 2
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Registries AKC, APRI, UABR,ACA,ect... Only in the business of registering dogs , they don't & can't police breeders on quality. It is up to the breeder to breed to "breed standards". |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 4/28/2008 5:05:31 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3310
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perhaps these will help you understand.
http://www.wonderpuppy.net/kc.htm
http://members.tripod.com/GWDalmatianClub/Dalinfo/repbreeder.htm |
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| Posts on this forum do not imply endorsement by the site, they are the sole expressed views of the original poster. |
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