| moleskent |
| Posted 4/28/2008 8:45:19 PM |
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Active: 03-09-2008
Posts: 17
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Quote PerfectPom: Explain to me how you not being able to grasp the simple concepts of neutering and breeding is indicative of me being bitter? And what exactly am I bitter about?
edited maoseger1010 |
edited maoseger... READ THE RULES! |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/28/2008 9:02:09 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
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| Quote PerfectPom: Your theories have been discounted and denounced here and other places time and again. I am personally offended by your "if it's a tiny and cute mix it doesn't end up on death row" statement. You have... |
Please don't be offended by reality. I am not the average family looking to adopt. No one puts a gun to their head, people just like cute dogs.
Why would anyone adopt a Dog they thought was not cute? People REALLY looking for some Karma points?
"oohh you SURE are an Ugly dog, but I will just feed you for the next 12 years because no one else will"
I guess it depends on the region and area too, but Pitt and Lab mixes in many parts of the country (NOT ALL) are SO MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE EUTHANIZED! No one wants a big unsocialized dog.
IN MY AREA. Not anyone elses. In our several county area, Lab, Pitt and hunting dogs and the mixes there of, are what are in the shelters. There are very very few small dogs that come through. And many of the pure breeds have breed specific rescues that take a lot of them in.
I have been on other forums and people from all over in different areas of the country HAVE NOTICED THE SAME THING. So it's not JUST here, but it may NOT be like this where you live.
Didn't one of the mods on here say it is PUREBREDS and Puppies in shelters in PA? That is TOTALLY backwards compared to around here, but its a different situation in a puppymill state.
Who knows? Where you live maybe they are euthanizing $2000 french bulldogs all the time, or $1000 Yorkies, morkies and sporkies (hahaha just threw the last one in there).
I just think if the WORST situation comes up and there is a lab mix in a shelter right next to a Morkie or a Puggle and only one is getting adopted, it is going to be the PURPOSELY MIXED dog. That is why they charge $300 plus for young Puggles in RESCUES, and average of $75-125 for lab mixes.
I am not justifying anything. I truly don't think it's wrong, and I don't really care what you think. I don't intend to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine.
Just quit being personally insulting and post stalking. |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/28/2008 9:05:31 PM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
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| Quote moleskent: edited maoseger... READ THE RULES! |
edited maoseger1010 |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/28/2008 9:16:46 PM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
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Quote beaglebrat: Please don't be offended by reality. I am not the average family looking to adopt. No one puts a gun to their head, people just like cute dogs.
Why would anyone adopt a Dog they thought was not cute?... |
I just don't follow a lot of your logic or agree with many of your assesments. I don't have the desire right now to respond to your many paragraphs. It has been done several times over already, and you have accused others of post stalking, just like you have been called a tattle tale. Take it up with management if you feel the need.
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/28/2008 11:02:49 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
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| Quote PerfectPom: I just don't follow a lot of your logic or agree with many of your assesments. I don't have the desire right now to respond to your many paragraphs. It has been done several times over already, and you... |
Tattletale? Really? What ever. Bottom line, I pay, actually I pay my fair share to be on this site. As almost ALL the advertisers do.
I don't make too many bones about it. This is MY JOB, MY ADVERTISING dollars hard at work. This is a great puppy selling site. I have a vested interest in making sure that acceptably decent Dog breeders are not put down on this FREE FORUM based on opinions.
Not to mention, it is in my nature to try to help people out. This is an area I am pretty knowledgeable in. I do what I can to offer my experience and opinions.
You know, I don't agree with most of what you say, but unfortunately I am at a disadvantage because you constantly bring up personal stuff.
While not really sharing anything about you. For all we know you could be a 30 year old man from NYC. Who knows? It's the internet.
The only thing you offer is negativity, seriously, lighten up. I really don't hold grudges, but if you are bound to keep up the attitude that's fine, because I am game too.
Really Pom, ball has ALWAYS been in your court, it's just what you continually choose to do with it. We can try to be half-way civil to each other or we can bore everyone with senseless banter.
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| moleskent |
| Posted 4/29/2008 5:21:55 PM |
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Active: 03-09-2008
Posts: 17
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| Quote PerfectPom: edited maoseger1010 |
edited maoseger1010 |
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| ShoobyTheDog |
| Posted 4/29/2008 5:50:23 PM |
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Active: 02-13-2008
Posts: 143
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| Quote maoseger1010: Here let me Help.... MILLIONS of dogs are PUT TO DEATH each year because there are not enough homes for them. A large majority of those dogs are mixed breed dogs. It begs the question, DO we really need... |
You are sooo right.Many dogs and cats are put down.
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 4/29/2008 7:56:47 PM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6666
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| Quote beaglebrat: I don't think too many tiny, cute mixed breeds are ending up on death row. I don't think small mixes are creating half the problem that Purebred enthusiasts and rescue fanatics are claiming. I just don't... |
OF course Puppies find homes, but many don't keep them. So those once cute little mix breed Puppies end up grown and on death with all the other dogs. Although a large majority of dogs put down are med to large mixes, there is an ever growing number of smaller dogs being put down as well. |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/29/2008 11:22:04 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
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| Quote maoseger1010: OF course Puppies find homes, but many don't keep them. So those once cute little mix breed Puppies end up grown and on death with all the other dogs. Although a large majority of dogs put down are med... |
Okay, but a big portion of those are also ill, unsocialized or unpotty trained if the continually can't find homes.
That has little to do with the 'breeder' and a lot more to do with the first home(s) the puppy is placed in.
I do think it is a shame that more breeders don't ask a few simple questions about scheduling and potty training before they just sell to 'anybody'.
That blame is pretty much 50/50 breeder/purchaser, but pet shops don't give a crap about who gets the Puppies or what situation they are going to-- even worse they start off with kennel/mill dogs that are already hard to potty train.
I don't think too many young, healthy, well mannered, potty trained small cute dogs are left to die in shelters. The same can not be said for these big mixes.
Which they can be GREAT dogs and still because of their size, shape and color (black) they still don't get adopted.
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/30/2008 12:08:44 AM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
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Quote beaglebrat: Okay, but a big portion of those are also ill, unsocialized or unpotty trained if the continually can't find homes.
That has little to do with the 'breeder' and a lot more to do with the first home(s)... |
Don't ya get it that you have a hand in those larger breed dogs not getting a home? You were referring to "tiny cute dogs" and that takes what you sell right out of the mix. Why are you so strongly defending tiny mixes? |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/30/2008 12:32:03 AM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
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| Quote PerfectPom: Don't ya get it that you have a hand in those larger breed dogs not getting a home? You were referring to "tiny cute dogs" and that takes what you sell right out of the mix. Why are you so strongly defending... |
What are you trying to say here?
I know we have profound philosophical differences. Are you trying to say that ANY LITTER of Puppies contributes to the death of shelter dogs?
If you think the Puppies I RAISE take homes away from the throw away dogs at shelters, because people purchase mine instead of adopting theirs.... you are pretty much an animal rights nut.
Which means that ANY Puppies. including those raised by the best of breeders for show do the exact same thing.
A litter is a litter, a puppy is a puppy that takes away from a homeless dog.
So by that logic, why didn't you choose to rescue a large, untrained mixed dog?
What made you go in to that PETSHOP and make your purchase?
You could always find a WONDERFUL HOME for your CUTE TINY LITTLE POM and do the 'morally right' thing and adopt a few pit mixes to play with your grandchild. |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/30/2008 1:07:23 AM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
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Quote beaglebrat: What are you trying to say here?
I know we have profound philosophical differences. Are you trying to say that ANY LITTER of Puppies contributes to the death of shelter dogs?
If you think the Puppies... |
I did contribute to the cycle by buying from a petstore. It was impulsive and not something I ever envisioned myself doing. I have to say though that I was rewarded with a parasite free healthy puppy who would have made a good breeder, so I think her mother may just thank me since her life won't be in vain.
It is true I could have gotten all our dogs from a shelter but by YOUR own argument you have stated numerous times that people want a cute puppy. I don't disagree that the small dogs around here are adopted quickly and usually go to rescues but they often have problems, behavior or health wise. Even a small cute puppy can piss off an overworked inmature spouse, enough to drop them off down the road in some cases.
I researched what temperaments I wanted etc. not just for cuteness. I am talking about in the big picture..you contribute on a daily basis that's all.  |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 4/30/2008 6:19:13 AM |
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Forum Moderator
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6666
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Quote beaglebrat: Okay, but a big portion of those are also ill, unsocialized or unpotty trained if the continually can't find homes.
That has little to do with the 'breeder' and a lot more to do with the first home(s)... |
You and I agree that the cute Puppies that end up on death row do so because they were unsocialized, unpotty trained or poorly bred aka ill. We agree that its partly a buyer/breeder isssue.
Sadly the owners/buyers are often to fault for not raising their dogs properly. People need education before and after they buy a dog.
Has little to do with the breeder... well yes and no. IF they were not breeding by the hundreds each year they would be able to be pickier about who they sell to.
They also need to be more honest in their selling of the dogs. Purebred and mixes. I can't count the number of families I've encountered who come home with this cute little ball of fur and say "Oh she'll only be 5 pounds full grown" Or "This is as big as he will get" Or "He won't shed or cause me to react to my allergies".... Only a few months later, the Dog now is ten pounds(not being over fed),phy. much larger than a pocket puppy and they thought they were getting and find themselves sneezeing their hinnys off. Upset and looking for a new home for the dog. I used to waste my time trying to explain to them that the mix of a Shih Tzu and a Bichon was very likely not going to stay five pounds and fit in your pocket book, but I got sick of them looking at me like "poor fool she just doesn't understand..the breeder should know her dogs, she's the breeder and she said my doggy will stay little forever" Now I just field the calls as they come in six months later with, "Do you know of anyone looking for a dog?" Because people know I love dogs and know lots of people who love dogs I'm often the first call they make.
Last time I checked the average Dog has three homes in its lifetime. Thats the average so many dogs have many more homes.
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/30/2008 8:26:34 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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| Quote PerfectPom: I did contribute to the cycle by buying from a petstore. It was impulsive and not something I ever envisioned myself doing. I have to say though that I was rewarded with a parasite free healthy puppy who... |
here i go on this with pom again...i cannot get the paragraph i want to quote quoted..but...this is specifically for pom...please!!! for once...have an open mind here!! i cannot agree with your statement. i do not believe that a toy size puppy, pure bred or not, hinders the chances of a larger mix breed pound Dog getting a home. i do believe that the person who is in search for a particular size and breed or particular mix, will search until they get as close to what they want. wherever they have to go to get it. i would also have to say that the biggest populations in shelters are large mixes and i dont believe anyone bred these on purpose. i would have to say that they came to be from mutts running around loose for the most part. i do understand that there are smaller dogs in shelters, but not too many. if so, they are the victims of illness,blindness, abuse, neglect, and just plain OLD!! peopels lives change and unfortunately so does their abilities to keep their pets. nothing you or i say or do will change this. if my parents were to become unable to care for their dog, of course i would take it in and care for it myself. there are WILL DO, WONT DO, AND CANT DO PEOPLE OUT THERE!! and this is unfortunate. but..the shelters in the larger cities which are full of huge dogs in need of homes are doomed. too many people cannot have a big mutt Dog in their apartment. many do not want a Dog that they cannot raise the way they want from a puppy. many dont want to bring in a senior citizen Dog into their young families. **** look at our nursing homes????? these are humans here we have thrown away. one more thing...if my spouse ever, ever, even thought of mistreating my Dog or kicking him to the curb, he would be pushing up daisies!! i actually have to pry the dogs off him...he is a downright Dog NUT!! we cannot change the way people are...they suck...we can have opinions and thats about it. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/30/2008 8:50:56 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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 here we are in the year 2008. this am we paid 3.75 per gallon for gas. everything and i do mean everything has gone up...except our paychecks. we have young men and women being killed everyday in a war that none of us can evwen understand. we all do whatever we have to do to make it through a day. we sit here and spew at each other about Puppies and dogs. why?? because we all have different beliefs and we all feel like our dogs are better than the others, our ways are better than the next, we are the best caretakers, best rescuers, best owners, best breeders, most knowledgable. we all need to take a break and look at ourselves. open our minds to what is really going on here. NONE of us want to see a Dog in a pound be put down, whether we are a Dog owner, breeder, show person, whatever. none of us want to see a Dog abused or neglected, none of us want to see a family dump a Dog off at the pound because of divorce, a new baby, a move, whatever. these are thing that we all will agree on. we could also agree that people have an idea of what they want and they will get it no matter where and why. has anyone ever thought about pointing the finger at the irresponsible Dog owner instead of the breeder?? why not change our way of thinking here for a minute?? why not think about laws which demand responsible ownership?? why not hold the owner solely responsible for the puppy or Dog they have chosen to bring home with them?? make it mandatory for them to follow rules and an idealistic way of caring for their dog. hold them responsible for placing their Dog in a proper home if they are no longer able to care for him. pass the knowledge around that one can do to save hundreds of dollars at the veterinarians office when indeed they can do most of these things at home. vaccines, wormings,paracite controll, etc. let the sheltershead these people off at the pass and demand they place their Dog in a home rather than taking them into the shelter. make it mandatory to register and keep track of what is going on with the progress of finding a new home. compile lists of people looking for certain breeds, mixes, sizes, sexes. there are many things that can be done rather than opening doors for anyone who wants to dump a dog. make it mandatory for each veterinarian to offer a certain amount of charity work for struggling pet owners. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/30/2008 8:59:32 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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long but not done yet. put some effort into getting these not potty trained dogs...potty trained..teach!!! we all know that the shelter thing isnt working the way it should. we all know they need funds in order to keep going. we all know we love animals and we would love it to be a perfect world and it never will be. just look at how some people walk out on their own kids. look at how they are abused, look at how they are blamed for their parents shortcommings. look at the little suffering crack babies. look at the elderly. arent our own parents, you know the ones who took care of us , now being dumped in nursing homes all over this country...is this not a shelter for people?? the only difference is that they dont euthanize. look at the numbers of families losing their homes and having to pick up and turn to family members to live. i dont know where this country is headed, but, it is downright scarry. i dont imagine any of us ever thought we would see such times in our lives. we all need to stand together here...realize we all love our dogs and our families...we all may not do things exactly the same, but, we all do mean the best i think....done!! |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/30/2008 10:09:11 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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i have a question...i wonder how many dogs are placed in homes out of shelters and rescues, that are then returned to the shelter?? how many times are these dogs replaced?? wonder what the numbers are?? i wonder how many are repeats?? are there ANY pitt or pitt mixes who are homed or are they simply declared non adoptable?? would i be completely wrong if i were to ask these questions??
1. would you agree that the shelter is the absolute cheapest place to get a dog??
2. would you agree that it is much more easy for lower income people or people acting on a whim to take on a Dog that they are not either able to care for or easily are more willing to lose their 60 to 100.00?? and dump him when they tire of him??
3. would you say that the person is looking for a specific breed puppy or specific size or mix...and are willing to spend a fair deal of money, would be more willing to be serious about the ownership of this dog??
4. would you say that there are a lot of very young new families who think their home isnt complete without a dog, any Dog will do??
5. would you say that some people who promise their kids a Dog can get one for a little of nothing at the pound?? cheap gift??
6.would you say that because someone has a fence that they are a good candidate to pick up a cheap Dog on a whim at the pound??
7. would you say last and not least...that people snow the shelters on a daily basis?? and would you say that more people have cheap in mind when adopting rather than rescuing out of love?? |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/30/2008 11:24:25 AM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
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| Quote moggie: i have a question...i wonder how many dogs are placed in homes out of shelters and rescues, that are then returned to the shelter?? how many times are these dogs replaced?? wonder what the numbers are??... |
Moggie I'm talking about the big picture. Just because someone has money and paid $1,200 for a yorkie doesn't mean it may not be rehomed several times..I've seen it with my own eyes. Some people get a small Dog and then have kids and guess what the Dog goes. Every time you rehome them they have the chance to end up in the wrong hands. I guess then if you want to be as responsible as you can you would offer a spueter contract but what do you have with a mix to hold back? With a purebred they hold back the papers until proof of spuetering. I think we as a country really are over breeding. I would be upset if later down the road all these mandatory speutering laws are passed because of over breeding and then someone can't even get their hands on that Pap they always dreamed of owning. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/30/2008 12:05:20 PM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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i think a lot of the speuter contracts arent kept anyway and i also think that legally they dont stand up. i think with the massive array of kennel clubs out there anyone anywhere can get papers anytime they want to. purebred or mix?? i dont really know what the answer is....i dont think there is one. |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/30/2008 12:08:36 PM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
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| Quote moggie: i think a lot of the speuter contracts arent kept anyway and i also think that legally they dont stand up. i think with the massive array of kennel clubs out there anyone anywhere can get papers anytime... |
Your idea of spuetering them before they go to their homes would be responsible but probably also prevent people from buying from you. |
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