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Puggles

JAYNDEE04

Posted 12/17/2006 4:23:44 AM

Active: 12-17-2006
Posts: 5

I do not understand the resentment from individuals concerning a breed of dog. People are over analyzing the situation. A Dog is a dog, it brings joy and love. Who cares if its not a purebred, if you like a puggle, get a puggle. If you like golden retrievers then get a golden retriever. Just dont sit back and make judgments about if a specific Dog should be bred or not, because chances are if you own a puggle you dont really care what anyone else thinks. Especially breeders of purebred dogs that are complaining because their purebreds sell for a fraction of what puggles are currently selling for. Prior to the popularity of puggles, I am sure a pug and a Beagle have had Puppies before. It is not like its some crazy alien creature. Leave the puggles and their owners alone.

RESCUEWENCH

Posted 12/17/2006 9:31:28 AM

Active: 01-24-2006
Posts: 7081

hi !! looks like you are in need if some attention? GREAT..I have soem time onmy hands and no coffee, or coke. so lets chat. :)

PUGGLES are designer mutts, and unless you are rescuing one that has already be bought and dumped and in need of a home- BUYING them only encourages the millers & back yard breeders to keep pumping them out.

what is a puggle bred to do? do you know?

do you know there are already puggle (only) rescues ?

have you ever seen what a breeder Dog in a puppymill lives like?(if you can call that living?) do you know how they DEBARK these dogs? or how they care for even the pups before they are shipped to stores?( the ones that MAKE it- many die before ever shipped out.

do you know how many people come here and tell horror storys about getting genetically defective dogs from these places?

or get ripped off in the pursuit of a designer mutt cheaper? ( so they try to buy them from 3rd world countrys?)

have you been to a pound lately? ever seen the "death room?" ever seen the hundreds of bodies piled up in trash cans? or on the floor?

we have TOO many dogs on this planet NOW , so many are DYING. ther eis NO reson to BREEED more "breeds" or dogs in general unless its a merritt to the standard and the breed,
it will be tested for Genetic problems, it will be tested & titled in work OR titled in show rings.. THESE are the dogs that are BRED responsibility- that MAKE the breed BETTER.

Puggles are mutts.

we have PLENTY of them dying- but dont take MY word for it:

watch this video ( bet you wont)

http://www.borntodiepets.com/html/video.htm

RW

Brika3

Posted 12/17/2006 10:23:40 AM

Active: 02-10-2006
Posts: 336

You are free to throw away 10 times as much of your money on a mutt from a BYB instead of the local shelter (for the same thing) if you want to, BUT by doing so YOU condem your "baby's" parents to a life of misery, abuse and neglect. Sleep well...(what fools)! Karen

suebgone

Posted 12/17/2006 12:52:29 PM

Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3317

Unfortunately you have not only missed the point, you have missed the entire story.

I hope you will at least make an effort to understand what RW has written & will become educated on this subject.

There is so much informaiton available on lots of sites on the subject - just google - Puppymills, Prisoners of Greed, Hearts United for Animals, NoPuppyMills.com

If you are still unable to grasp this concept I don't know what to tell you

FunnyBunny

Posted 12/17/2006 1:10:35 PM

Active: 02-17-2005
Posts: 5770

I would guess that you yourself own a pug/Beagle mix by the way you are defending the breeders and the Dog correct? It sure sounds that way. Good breeders are NOT jealous of the money that is coming from mixed breeds (and they are just that) because reputable breeders have dogs worthy of being bred, and at that, they are producing Puppies with great genetics as far as they know, show quality animals, etc. Pug/Beagle mixes are nothing more than what I put them down as. They are not "puggles" as you, backyard breeders, and idiot debutantes that are walking around carrying them in Louis Vuitton bags call them. What happens next? They get too big for that 3000 dollar bag, and too big for their diamond encrusted collar, so they're dumped off at a shelter. If not that, they simply bark and howl too much. IF NOT THAT, they're just too much of a hassle, and are also dumped at the shelter where they face an uncertain future. Puppy mills are pumping out these dogs over and over again, passing on serious genetic defects and illnesses as puppy mills NEVER give veterinary care, as well as backyard breeders. You would NEVER see a reputable breeder breeding a mix...never. We have a serious overpopulation problem because of the idiots that continue to breed these mixes, and because of the idiots that continue to buy them without thinking once about the puppy they are sentencing to death in a shelter because that is one less home for a Dog that could be saved. "Puggles" as you so naively call them are nothing more than a Pug/Beagle mix...just like the thousands of other mixes in shelters across the country waiting for a home, but they're not good enough because they don't have a fancy (and very stupid) name, or because they don't come with the high price tag that the others come with.

JAYNDEE04

Posted 12/18/2006 4:45:13 AM

Active: 12-17-2006
Posts: 5

I actually own two full bred dogs, one bichon frise and one coton de tulear. I am not supporting puppy mills or putting down breeders of full bred dogs, but simply stating how does a human being direct resentment towards a dog. I own two cats both which I adopted from the spca, and fully support the work that spca's do in finding animals homes. I understand about the horrific events that take place in puppy mills, and about the overpopulation of dogs. Yet, are only puggles or (pug/beagles) bred in pupply mills? You have to take a step back and analyze the canine market keeping in mind what it really is, a business. The first rule of business is supply and demand. Right now there is a high demand for puggles, this is why they are bred. If not the puggle, then it is the labradoodle or the cockapoo, and don't kid yourself, if tomorrow full bred dalmatians were in high demand, they would be flying out of the puppy mills just as fast as puggles are now. The problem is not the dog, but the manner in which they are being produced. Every creature has a right to be created, and I support those individuals that breed puggles the right way, and have a genuine love for the dogs they breed; not because it's a puggle but because it's a dog. Do not bash puggles because they are popular and bred in pupply mills, they do not choose their fate. Bash low moral, money hungry individuals who over breed the Dog purely for profit, and have no conern about thier well being.

JAYNDEE04

Posted 12/18/2006 5:12:21 AM

Active: 12-17-2006
Posts: 5

RW I did go to borntodie.com, and watched the videos. Obviously this situation is horrible and very troubling. I believe that every pet should have the right to live. Though, if you noticed there were also cats being euphanized. Is there currently an "it" cat that is being bred and taking away from potential adoptions from shelters? I am an open minded person, and will change my opinion on a subject if I feel there is enough evidence to pursue me otherwise. So, show me the facts, show me the studies that say since the introduction of puggles the rate of dogs euphanized in shelters have increased. Give me clear evidence that links "designer dogs" to increased dogs in shelters. Alot of dogs and cats in shelters have had previous owners and are of an elder age. Their owners lack of appreciation and love for their pet has landed them in kill shelters. Who is to say owners of designer dogs would otherwise adopt from shelters. Your argument is weak because it has no basis, no fact, just your opinion expressed in a rather aroggant fashion.

Brika3

Posted 12/18/2006 9:08:57 AM

Active: 02-10-2006
Posts: 336

Quote JAYNDEE04: I actually own two full bred dogs, one bichon frise and one coton de tulear. I am not supporting puppy mills or putting down breeders of full bred dogs, but simply stating how does a human being direct...

I think you've completly missed the point! There is not a single one of us that does not value the life of EVERY Dog out there!!! It is NOT the dogs we are against, it is the "Mutts For Bucks" breeding we are against! We are also against the BYB that breed purebred dogs as well as they are no better! Breeding WITH a goal to improve the health, temperment and paying close attention to the BREED STANDARD is the ONLY acceptable way to breed! These breeders generally put their dogs in the show ring to make sure they are on the right track. With a mutt you have NO standard, there is no way to track and follow what health issues arise because nobody is following or recording it. It is NOT impossible to get a breed recognised by the AKC, but it is a lot of work, AND record keeping. The "mutts for bucks" crowd are NOT interested in going through the work or expense of becoming recognised because it would hurt their "bottom line" ($$$$$), AND they just don't care what nightmares they are producing. Yes the Puppies are cute, but way to often they do not grow up to be what the buyer was promised and in frustration they are thrown away and dumped at the shelter to be sold as what they are: A GOOD OLD FASHION MUTT. Again, we are not against ANY dog, we are against ANY breeder (purebred breeder of mutt breeder) whose only in it for a buck! Karen

RESCUEWENCH

Posted 12/18/2006 9:18:32 AM

Active: 01-24-2006
Posts: 7081

this is NOT my opinion, as you didn read check sueb's post .

the current "IT" cat that is being killed?

yeah ; the DSH The DMH & the DLH.

i do NOT condoner any BREEDING OF ANY PET QUALITY PET_ be it a DESIGNER MUTT or a poodle, or a GSD.

IF the Dog cannot be proven in work & /or show and cannot pass all the genetic hurdles,
and still win teh titles & make it to be a VERY exceptional example of "what the breed standard requires" - then it should be altered .

PERIOD.

you dont like the way I say it? too bad , so sad.

my job is not to stuff sunshine up your back end-

I tell it like it is . i have killed TOO many animals ,and i have seen too many animals still being killed to be or take the TIME to try to explain this to you.

Its NOT rocket science.

and its NOT only puggles, IN case you havent noticed - NOT many here except a few bybs & commercial breeders CONDONE the breeding OF pet quality pets. ( well some non-informed JQP also)

regardless; if they are designer mutts for bucks or not.
the biggest problem is the designer mutts for bucks is getting FAR out of hand now:
see fox's thread- & bri 's thread .

and

these animals are being BRED for NO other purpose than to make someone else RICH.

and for your proclamation over the dalmatation? - that already HAPPENED!!! wher were you ? diapers?

and FYI i run a all breed rescue- I have rescued PUGGLES from pounds , i have a "miniture Boxer" right now. nice designer genetic nightmare albit, pure bred.

its a FRUITCAKE in the brain and totally unadoptable.

I LOVE ALL dogs .

I HATE the PEOPLE that are BREEDING dogs TO DIE!!

Do you understand this? shall i get crayons & draw you a picture??

GOOD GREIF.

RESCUEWENCH

Posted 12/18/2006 9:34:15 AM

Active: 01-24-2006
Posts: 7081

Quote suebgone: Unfortunately you have not only missed the point, you have missed the entire story.

I hope you will at least make an effort to understand what RW has written & will become educated on this subject....

did OP edit something said before you made that post?

i wouldnt be surprised at all.

RESCUEWENCH

Posted 12/18/2006 9:38:56 AM

Active: 01-24-2006
Posts: 7081

QUOTE OP: "Every creature has a right to be created, and I support those individuals that breed puggles the right way, and have a genuine love for the dogs they breed; not because it's a puggle but because it's a dog. "

said who; GOD??? there are T O O M A N Y DYING N O W ( am i typing SLOW enought for you to GRASP this?)

the only reason designer dogs are being BRED by commercial breeders is teh MONEY

maybe some back water BYB's "love " this breed - BUT that doesnt MAKE what they are doing RIGHT.

NOT with the amount of dogs dying inpound INCLUDING PUGGLES.

THINK...again this is NOT rocket science - i have explained this concept to school children that completely understood-- why cant YOU understand? or are you Just playing IGNORANT & looking for a fight?

RESCUEWENCH

Posted 12/18/2006 11:25:00 AM

Active: 01-24-2006
Posts: 7081

whats up?? puggle got your tongue ?

JAYNDEE04

Posted 12/18/2006 1:56:21 PM

Active: 12-17-2006
Posts: 5

No crayons needed, and that's cute (puggle got your tongue). The dalmatian craze, yeah I probably was in diapers, was that after 101 dalmatians came out? That said,I actually can not disagree with you to much here about anything you are saying. I agree, how can anyone support breeders who breed for money without regard for the animals. My only point is that if there is a demand for a certain dog, whether it be a fullbred or a mut, that Dog is going to be produced at a massive rate and this is obviously not the dogs fault. I am not looking for an argument, not one bit actually. I still believe though that if not one designer Dog was ever created, dogs in shelters would still die everyday regardless. Once again like I stated before if you show me the proof that links the production of designer dogs to an increase rate of dogs killed in shelters I will change my mind on this, thus far you have not. I understand there is to many dogs but puppy mills and mass breeders are causing this not designer dogs. Please do not try and insult me by saying you can teach little children this. Come on now, little children are impresionable and will believe anything anyone tells them. You should not be very proud that you can convince a little kid of something. Little children think a fat guy in a suit is going to come down thier chimney next week and give them presents. When you become educated, you question things, you dont just believe something because you are told to. I do have a question for you, because I do feel that you are better knowledgable regarding dogs than I. Preliminary studies show that 1st generation hybrid dogs have less health concerns than many fullbreds. You probably have seen these studies. Scientists proclaim that since some of the common problems found in dogs are recessive genes they can be reduced by cross breeding. What is your opinion on this matter?

puglet

Posted 12/18/2006 2:11:49 PM

Active: 12-30-2005
Posts: 830

Quote JAYNDEE04: No crayons needed, and that's cute (puggle got your tongue). The dalmatian craze, yeah I probably was in diapers, was that after 101 dalmatians came out? That said,I actually can not disagree with you...

I wish posters like you would read posts properly before starting an argumentative post when you dont know what your talking about.

Firstly:- No one on here has a problem just with puggles. they are cute dogs. persoanlly i prefer purebred pugs but anyway. What people on here have a problem with is that there are NO REPUTABLE PUGGLE BREEDERS!! know why? cause they are not a real breed and real breeders only breed to improve existing breeds through selective breeding and showing. they put their whole lives into perfecting our breeds avoiding health problems and creating happy healthy Puppies. No puggle breeders do this becuase you can't show puggles in order to improve them. these breederS despite their websites promising that they are a christian family who love dogs etc etc, are simply buying 2 average dogs and breeding them in order to cater to a fad. they don't care that they could be producing unhealthy Puppies all they want is cash. While obivously mills do produce loads of unhealthy purebreds, as well as designer dogs - ther are loads of great purebred breeders out there - but again NO REPUTABLE MIX BREEDERS!. That is why people on here are so down on mixes like puggles - becuase they know that anyone wh owns one has paid a byb or miller for the pup.

puglet

Posted 12/18/2006 2:23:29 PM

Active: 12-30-2005
Posts: 830

cont....

Again, il repeat it - people on here care for puggles and poos and all the the deisgner mutts just as much as your regular mix in a shelter. but the fact remains, these dogs should not be bred. Another reason is that in one litter of puggles their may only be one or two that have that puggle look. all you need to do is look on petfinder and see how many weird looking mixes are puggles. some look more like beagles, others more like pugs. what do you think happens to these puggles that dont have the right look? well the lucky ones end up in a shelter while the others - well who knows, left in bins, drowned, smothered etc. this is the reality of breeding a mix where its all experimental. so many puggles without the right look are deemed useless and expendable. again, its not the puggles we hate - its the breeders. Every person who buys a designer mutt could save a mix from a shelter instead which proves that designer mutts do cuase more dogs in shelters to be put down. If you love a purebred, then chances are thats your breed and you want to own it. However, if you want a mix that dosn't look like any of our existing breeds then why not rescue a mix pup from a shelter?? Answer? becuase its not cool because a mix from a shelter that doesnt have a ridiculous name and isnt owned by Jessica Simpson. This is what the problem is - people wuld rather pay 100's of dollars for a mix they belive is cool becuase of the unscrulpulous breeders out their advertising these mutts. they are just crossbreeds - no different to your average shelter mutt but rather than rescue, these idiots pay millers instead for a poo or doodle etc.

puglet

Posted 12/18/2006 2:27:29 PM

Active: 12-30-2005
Posts: 830

So next time before you come on and start accusing people of hating puggles etc. not one of us hate any Dog and we believe that each Dog has the right to a loving family and long happy life. But there are enough mixes out their in shelter already. and where are all the mixes going to go when the fad is over and all these lindsay lohan and jessica simpson wannabees are left with a fully grown mutt that they only got cause it was cool at the time? in the shelter along with all the mixes that were already there becuase most of the people who buy designer mixes havnt researched anything about Dog ownership but just like the idea of carriying a pup that is in fashion about and its people like these who abandon their dogs in shelters more than any other. dogs aren't for fashion they are living creatures and shouldnt be exploited as such. while 101 dalmations and turner and hooch etc, did create a fad for those 2 breeds, this designer Dog fad is so much more dangerous and uncontrollable and again il repeat it - THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO BREED DESIGNER MIXES ARE BAD, UNSCRUPULOUS, PUPPY MILLERS OR UNEDUCATED IDIOTS WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE REAL REASONS TO BREED AND WHO SHOULDNT BE BREEDING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

JAYNDEE04

Posted 12/18/2006 2:58:54 PM

Active: 12-17-2006
Posts: 5

Puglet, I like the way you say that I do not know anything when you can not comprehend something you just read minutes ago. I am not arguing with anyone, just discussing a topic. Plus your post is simply a summary of everything that has already been said, nothing new at all. You say people are down on mixed breeds like the puggle because they know if you have a puggle you paid a high price from a mill or byb, ok. Well let's hear your solution. What should we do? Should we strike, protest againt puggles? Should no more puggles be bought? I do not have an answer, but you seem to be very opinionated so lets hear yours. How do you recommend this problem is fixed? Plus, you say that someone who purchases designer Dog could be buying a mixed Dog from a shelter. Yes, and someone who is buying a fullbred Dog from a breeder COULD also be buying a Dog from a shelter. Just because someone COULD do something does not necessarily mean they will actually do it. I do not disagree, puppy mills are bad, breeders who breed large amounts of dogs for nothing more than money are bad. This is not my argument in the least bit.

Brika3

Posted 12/18/2006 3:08:18 PM

Active: 02-10-2006
Posts: 336

Quote JAYNDEE04: Puglet, I like the way you say that I do not know anything when you can not comprehend something you just read minutes ago. I am not arguing with anyone, just discussing a topic. Plus your post is simply...

The solution is simple if people would only WAKE UP and give a hoot about the problem! If you want a mix got to your local shelter/rescue, if they do not currently have what you want don't worry, they will soon! If you want a purebred do your homework and find a RB that does ALL the health testing, does put their dogs in the ring and ONLY breeds the best of the best AFTER verifying they are free from genetic defect AND titled. IF people ONLY bought from these avenues the over population and euthenasia of perfectly good pets would become much easier to deal with! However, that is not what is happening and people just don't seem to care, they think if they pay some BYB/Puppymill a fortune they must really have something special. NONE of this is the fault of the critters, it's the idiot humans causing the problem. Karen

RESCUEWENCH

Posted 12/18/2006 3:18:59 PM

Active: 01-24-2006
Posts: 7081

QUOTE" Preliminary studies show that 1st generation hybrid dogs have less health concerns than many fullbreds. You probably have seen these studies. Scientists proclaim that since some of the common problems found in dogs are recessive genes they can be reduced by cross breeding. What is your opinion on this matter? "

FIRST- i do community services - i speak at schools and 4-H clubs and for girl & boy scouts RE: proper animal welfare , which includes the OVER POPULATION problem and HOW to solve it- these "children" are tomorrows LAWMAKERS and teaching them this NOW may help save these animals in the future. THIS is the WAY to change the world- teaching our children the RIGHT things.
I do NOT find that teaching and educating children a BAD or a stupid thing.

education is the BEST way to re teach the child that lives at home with parents that are breeding mutts for bucks ..

or have dogs chained in teh yard...

read THIS link if you will be bothered - its well worth the read and not too long:

http://animalliberationfront.com/Saints/Authors/Stories/My%20name%20is%20Sam.html

second- do you know a PUGGLE or any designer mutt is NOT a HYBRID? do you know what a HYBRID even IS??
its a CROSS of 2 DIFFERENT SPECIES! not 2 different breeds ( good lord)

like a TIGON is a hybrid a MULE is a hybrid a Liger is a hybrid.

what you are talking about is called "hybrid vigor" and that is not named correctly in the case of crossing dogs.

BUT - any MUTT has this . be it a 2000.00 designer mutt OR a 30.00 mutt from the pound.

what is MY opinion on that? my opinion is :
responsible breeders that create purebred dogs do all they CAN to ensure longetivity, immune system strenth, as well as temperment , standards etc.

well bred dogs CAN be healthy.

POORLY bred (BYB/ MILLER)purebreds are NOT checked for these issues, nothing is done to prevent immune system problems , etc..
HENCE now there are so MANY BYB & miller dogs - scientists are saying that mutts are healthier - why? becasue the mutt is outcrossed bred.

the odds of the problems that come from morons that do NOT know HOW to breed properly are FAR higher.

and frankly the bybs & millers FAR outnumber the responsible breeders nowadays.

RW

goldenpuppypaws

Posted 12/18/2006 10:25:18 PM

Active: 11-16-2006
Posts: 72

Res,Puglet& Brika ,
I agree with everything you said about Pm & Bb.
The bottom line is that there are animals dying
because people feel that they are disposable. When they are "done" with them. And until we find homes for every single animal that is currently homeless
(which obviously will be never happen) we shouldn't even consider inventing(if you will)other breeds.un-
fortantly people are doing the same with human babies. Just pumping them out whether they can afford them or not,Whether they want them or not
whether they are resposible or not. Etc...
You get the picture same concept.They just want to play house for a while.It's a novelty.
Don't get me wrong I am by no means a Dog expert.All I have to offer is my opinion. I love
animals, mostly dogs but that by no means gives me any authority on dogs I just know when something sounds right and you guys are right on target. There are plenty of dogs in need already.
Jayndee,
I certainly respect where you are coming from.
You also have valid points. Please understand that this a touchy subject for these people who have been working with and seeing all the results of this breeding stuff for years.