The four Dobes...

I'm not going to start an argument and I will not encourage one. I'm just posting "the answers" to my challenge of the four dobe photos. These were all different dogs. Two red females, one red male, and one black female. DOG #1: This is the 50% Euro, 50% American dog. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/lhartlep/02Nov190.jpg DOG #2: This is the 75% American, 25% Euro dog. He is my dog, and is pointed in the AKC ring. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/lhartlep/11Feb144.jpg DOG #3: This is the 100% American dog. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/lhartlep/smal01.jpg DOG #4: This is the 25% South American, 75% American. She is my other dog, and a spayed pet. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/lhartlep/29Mar336.jpg

Kewl.

lol I got them all wrong as well

but see, that is the point. I will concede the point that Euro Dobes often look stockier.........sometimes it is because they are, but sometimes it is just an illusion because the Europeans tend to keep their Dobermans heavier than we would keep a show dog here. They also set them up differently than we do. They have the collar down low and teach the dog to lean into it - this position gives them a different look than the American show stack which has the collar high to outline the neck and highlight the natural arch in the neck. They also are not leaning their weight on the front and instead stand square with the weight evenly distributed. I'm not saying one is better than the other - it is what it is........just a different way to showing them. Europeans tend to dock the tails shorter (In the countries that still allow it). If you look at pictures of some of the Europeans showing a working breed, it is just totally a different way of doing it & does create a different look. If you take a nicely bred and correct Euro dobe, crop and dock them like we do and stack them like we do, and show trim them like we do......... put them up against nice American Dobermans with good bone, it would be very difficult if not impossible for most people to tell the difference. I was at a show once when someone brought a nice working Doberman to show. He did not do well and the owner was upset. I told him that he had a nice boy but that if he wanted to compete in the breed ring he needed to present him the same way. He needed show ring training and he needed a show trim big time. It is a tough ring to compete in - mostly professionals and they are good at what they do. I really hope that no-one takes this the wrong way. I admire a nice working Doberman - I really love this breed. I'd love to see someone do it with a puppy I produce some day. I do hate to see people sucked into some of the gimmicks. I've got no problem with people wanting a Doberman from a breeder who specializes in it - if that is what they want to do. But just like anything in the world of dogs, there are plenty of people just looking to make a buck off of someone else's laurels.

Velma: For my first time around I think I did a pretty good identifying them. So to even me with these dogs there seemed to be something distinquishable. I do like the look of the American Dobie better, but personally I'm more of a function over form gal. I'd love to meet some good dobs some day. The only ones I have were very skiddish or lazy. Doesn't give me a good image of the breed at all.

It's too bad you have not seen some really nice ones. Such a cool breed ... American or otherwise. When I've been at big indoor shows near a city like NYC, I've put Velma's therapy dog vest on after judging and spectators just flock to her.... very surprised at how approachable a good Doberman can be. She is happy to let people stand and pet her although she is a little standoffish - typical behaviour. This is the same dog that will go into a defence mode if she thinks I am being threatened. Just a very cool breed when done right. Unfortunately, they are done wrong by too many unethical breeders. Temperament is just so important. I could have a top 20 Doberman ...but if the temperament was not good, they would be altered.

same here - i like dobies with cropped & docked and boxers docked BUT natural ear. and i prefer euro boxers also. RW

mary i have always respected your opinions & diplimatic ways of speaking. i simply said i PREFER the look of the euro lines. i said many many time JUST because i havent SEEN any am line dobies here or when was in fla doing SCHH - doesnt mean they are NOT any out there. the first pages i repeated that over and over- i didnt start getting snippy - untill micdobe showed up and started mis quoting me - and selectively editing what i SAID to what he "read into what i said" i complimented V's dpogs giving credit wher credit is due- lovely show dog they lok to me. i cannot be nice to mic dobve in general as he lives to torment me - and i dilike poepl that twist word & mis quotes others to their advantage.- he annoys me. if you read it all the way through NOT scan it- you will see OTHERS saw him misquoteing me throught the rest ofthe thread. and yes by then, i was getting snippy. as far as AM lines in SCHH... i just am NOT seeing them in any of the schh clubs i am in. or have ever been in. - when going to shows i have neevr seen one announced with a working title, BUT that may because teh AKC doesnt promote or even entertain ScHH in general. but- I do not think that because i prefer a differnt LOOK-& a different personality its a sin. i am basing THIS on the euro dogs i am seeig in my schh club NOW and the ones i have seen before - the ones i have worked. sadly in the 70's the am lines were washing out of schh left & right. some people LOVE toy dogs, some hate them.. same difference. opinions are what they are. and that breeders web site shows me NOT one red flag at all. i have seen her applications. and spoke to her on the phone a few times.. i have watched her litters for 3 years now. i would hazzard a guess that if she waas attacked by a gang of AM line people like mic dobe & V - that they could run JC himself off a board. they gang up on people, twist others words around and are vicious, like a pack of jackals. RW

Titles are not announced at dog shows, they are only listed in the catalog, so no one would ever "hear" any titles announced. As velmadobe said the only titles that will be listed in the catalog are the AKC titles. Schutzhund is not an AKC title so even if a dog had a SchIII it would not be listed in the catalog, neither will a WAC or ROM.

Well do the titles show up on the pedigree even? Cuz the back of my dogs' pedigrees list the abbreviations used both before and after the dog's names. I don't see why those things aren't listed anywhere, if my dog's had accomplishments no matter how little I'd want their titles to show up somewhere!