| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/20/2006 6:26:45 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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 Traditions are great. We have many family traditions that I hope goes on forever...Candle light service on Christmas Eve, Turkey and cornbread dressing on Thanksgiving,etc. But none of them include chopping on our dogs. Dog fighting must have been tradition in some countries as some breeds were developed just for that. Thank goodness it is outlawed here, but there are still those that do "behind closed doors". And many feel it is their right because they own a Dog bred for fighting, it is their dog, it is not the business of anyone else what they do with their dog. It is the same with rooster fighting.
These are extremely cruel things to be happening to these animals. I have seen pitties on Animal Cops whose ears have been cut off, sometimes by owner with scissors, so other dogs couldn't rip them up in a fight. Of course this isn't the same as getting ears cropped or tail docked by a vet, but it comes down to the same thing--it is done because that is tradition and it is what the owner wants...and neither is for health reasons. heck, if the fighing dog's owner cared about the health of his dog, he wouldn't be fighting it in the first place. |
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/20/2006 6:59:19 PM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
Posts: 1031
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With this debate over 'tradition', and my interest in language, I felt compelled to get out my dictionary. It defines tradition as 'a custom or practice of long standing'.
Well, doesn't say there if it's a good or a bad thing. So we can all then assume that some are good, some are bad. If nobody argues with that assumption, we can then question which this tradition is: good or bad? What is it makes this one a good one? What makes this one more worthy of perpetuation that bull baiting? Or Dog fighting? |
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 8:22:40 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
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Quote GraceEmily: With this debate over 'tradition', and my interest in language, I felt compelled to get out my dictionary. It defines tradition as 'a custom or practice of long standing'.
Well, doesn't say there if it's... |
Look, I'm getting sick and tired of people comparing ear cropping to Dog fighting and bull baiting. Baiting and fighting are done with the deliberate intention to hurt the animals for amusment. Even if cropping and docking are done for nothing more than cosmetic reasons, that's STILL not the same as hurting them for FUN! My patience on this is running out. You have NO right whatsoever to lump people who dock/crop into the same category as the monsters who bait and fight, and what makes it even worse is that you KNOW there's no comparison which means you're saying it just to be insulting.
Yes, it's a tradition. Yes, 99% of docking/cropping is now done because it's aesthetically pleasing. SO WHAT?!?! Do these whining little "preasure groups" spend this much time fostering death row dogs? Do they lobby for stricter punishments on poachers who kill just for ivory? Have they adopted a whale? Have they done ANYTHING significant, or is their only claim to fame as animals right's activists that they harrass Dog lovers who just want to make their Dog better (in their own opinion.) If someone is going to fight this hard, it should be for something that's a real problem. Don't worry about the small fries. You'll feel FAR better about yourself at the end of the day when you accomplish something big, like longer jail time for people caught fighting dogs. THAT'S something worth investing your time into. You can't really tell me that you lie awake at night fretting about the dogs who are going to have sore ears for a few days. Aim highter than that!
An Em, as for hoping that people will change their own mind once they know the facts, that's a nice thought but stick to the facts. Comparing docking to baiting isn't a fact, and making statements that like will make people question other things you have to say. 
Ok, I'm done with my tyrade for now. I'm sure I'll be back with more hellfire and brimstone after someone else makes a post I don't agree with.  |
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:14:06 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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Let's see. I support several shelters and rescue groups. I support many wild life rescues and attempts to save whales, etc. (I am talking donations of money, not just talk. I have a rescue Dog that was one hour from being gassed at the county pound.
I support several human charaties for orpahns, unwanted children, etc, as well as cancer research, lung assocaition, St, Judes hospital, etc. And of course church.
I sign petitions for laws to get changed for harsher punishment for animimal abuse (like the pittie puppy that was doused in acid a few weeks back, the golden that had his feet taped together, his muzzle taped and dumped in the water to drown, etc. I write city and state governments when I have addressess.
I have spent 2 1/2 years all over the web telling my Hunter's story and how Proheart6 killed him and it makes me cry every time I tell it. Many of us banded together and spread the word and eventaully it was pulled from the market 10 months after my Hunter died. I came to this board the first time because I was asked to come and tell his story a few months ago. Proheart is off the market now, but may be back, or even worse the 12 month version.
Our state has the 3 year rabies vax law, but allows each county and city to decide for itself and ours opts for the every year. I am gathering all the info I can and am fighing to get the law changed in our city to every 3 years, and if i can do it, then I will work on the county.
So don't for one minute think all I do is pick on people who want to chop off their dogs tails and cut up their ears. I have rheumatoid arthritis and stay tired most of the time and can not do the physical things i use to could do. But I do all that I can do to help animals, all animals, not just dogs. And by the way, I use to hunt duck, quail, dove, squirrell and still would if i could. They were never killed for fun (that is sick) but were killed for food. And I fish, and kill the keeper fish i catch--again for food. I detest trophy hunters, but hunting and eating what you kill is something else.
Oh, and before anyone says "killing those critters is cruel" the beef, pork, chicken, turkey you get at the grocery store was also once a living creature that was killed for food.
I am no where near the animal activist as the folks in PETA, but i do not like to see unnecessary things done to dogs--or any other animals--in the name of "it looks good". |
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| dusty082155 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:22:03 PM |
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Active: 05-15-2005
Posts: 476
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| Quote foxfire_ga79: Look, I'm getting sick and tired of people comparing ear cropping to Dog fighting and bull baiting. Baiting and fighting are done with the deliberate intention to hurt the animals for amusment. Even if... |
you go girl ! i totally agree. people could find much better use of their time than worrying about someone elses dogs ears. which by the way, are done under anesthesia , by a liscenced vet. with no trauma to the dogs. save the whales. lmao. save a horse ! ride a cowboy ! |
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:26:59 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
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| Quote dusty082155: you go girl ! i totally agree. people could find much better use of their time than worrying about someone elses dogs ears. which by the way, are done under anesthesia , by a liscenced... |
You provide me a cowboy and I'll show him just how good I am at breaking horses. lol |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:34:18 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
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| Quote Threegoldens: Let's see. I support several shelters and rescue groups. I support many wild life rescues and attempts to save whales, etc. (I am talking donations of money, not just talk. I have a rescue Dog that... |
Yippe for you. You want a freaking gold star. |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:36:52 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
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| Quote GraceEmily: Natural dogs, where I am from, are not 'outcasts' or 'outsiders' in any way. They are the norm. There are more countries in the world where cropping is not done rather than done. The number of pressure... |
Well, where I am from, the USA a normal Dobie is cropped and docked. I do have a "traditional" dobie, even if you don't want to believe it. No matter what a traditional dobie is cropped and docked and just because you don't like it, you try to say my Dog is an outcast. You are highly mistaken, and I could care less what happens in other countries, I'm concerned with the US not the UK. |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:40:36 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
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| Quote foxfire_ga79: Look, I'm getting sick and tired of people comparing ear cropping to Dog fighting and bull baiting. Baiting and fighting are done with the deliberate intention to hurt the animals for amusment. Even if... |
Thank God someone else is thinking the same thing. There are so many actual abusive things done to animals, and people who are opposing cropping/docking are wasting their time fighting this. Go join the peace corps, or hug a tree and lay off of people who HUMANELY crop/dock their dogs. Go fight useful causes, or better yet just go scr*w yourself and leave people like me alone. |
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:41:22 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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Why should I want a gold star for doing what is right? And by the way, that was in reply to a post asking if I had ever done anything other than carp a people for cutting up their dogs. I just wanted that person to know that yes, i do a lot of other stuff for better lives and treatment for animals and humans. |
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 9:41:34 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
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| Quote Threegoldens: Let's see. I support several shelters and rescue groups. I support many wild life rescues and attempts to save whales, etc. (I am talking donations of money, not just talk. I have a rescue Dog that... |
People like you are few and far between. You have to admit that the vast majority of people who complain are only good at pointing fingers.
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:08:42 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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Foxfire, I thank you for that. I breaks my heart when I see animals, any animals, mistreated. I mentioned about the pittie pup that was doused with acid and had to be put to sleep. I was so upset and cried and cried over the pictures of that poor puppy. I sent e-mails to about a dozen people whose addresses were listed to try to make sure if the person (they think it was the owner) was caught that he got everything that could give him. I posted the story on other boards and people from there wrote also
I got involved with one golden rescue in Florida (and I am in Texas) when they took a 209 pound golden from these people. The story was posted on one of my Golden Retriever boards. That poor Dog could not even get up. He was laying in his own poop and pee and they would hose him off from time to time. That poor creature looked like a giant slug. I sent in donation for health care for him, but his heart was so taxed he died a couple of weeks after being taken from his so called owners. I still send donations for the other dogs. It is unreal that many people turn their dogs in because the dogs are heartworm positive and they don't want to pay the cost of treatment.
My youngest son is a marine biologist and he gets all kinds of info about slaughter of whales (apparently some people dont care about saving this magnificent creatures that ARE NEEDED to keep sea life balanced) and other sea creatures. As much as i fear sharks, it makes me sick that some countries have fishermen that catch sharks, bring them on board and cut the fins off (for shark fin soup) the live sharks and then dump them back in the water to drown--they have to swim all the time or they drown due to not having a swim bladder. I know about baby harp seals being killed for their white coats so fashion ladies can wear white seal coats. They are sometimes skinned alive.
I know all this is far worse than cropping and docking, but I just can't get around doing anything unnecesary to an animal that causes pain. By the way, i am against circus acts with animals also. That is no life for them. They should be in the wild living natural and not chained and caged. Those animals spend a life time "in prison" without having ever commited a crime.
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:24:20 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
Posts: 4801
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I love all animals more than I could ever say, and I guess I think reverse of you. There are so many horrible things happening to animals that cosmetic surgery is at the bottom of my list.
In another forum I'm in there was a cross post of a beautiful little blue pitbull in Illinois....Had been thrown on a bar-b-que grill. The scars were so horrible I cried every time I even thought of her. She was on petfinder.com
I was $13000 in debt at the time, but I sure spent hours praying for her, and she's got her happily ever after now.
Wish I could save the world, but I'm starting at the top of the list, and the people that "chop" their dogs are outranked by the ones who grill their dogs on my feces roster. |
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| dusty082155 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:36:29 PM |
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Active: 05-15-2005
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| Quote Threegoldens: Foxfire, I thank you for that. I breaks my heart when I see animals, any animals, mistreated. I mentioned about the pittie pup that was doused with acid and had to be put to sleep. I was so upset and... |
that pittie pup incident happened by where i live. i havent heard anymore about it on the news. as far as i know, they still have not caught the one/s that actually did it.
a local group is offering a 10,000 reward in hopes that someone will come forth.
this part of the story brings tears to my eyes :
"They wrapped the pup up, racing to the Animal Hospital. Even though the Dog was wagging her tail, she was in agony. The doctors took pictures of the the acid burns.". this puppy was in agony and still wagged her tail for her rescuers.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/8049419/detail.html |
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:41:57 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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Believe me, I do not go around preaching about it and starting topics aboutit. I just say what I feel when I see the topic already going. I start topics about things like the puppy doused with acie, the golden with taped feet & muzzle that was dumped into the sea to drown, the 209 pound golden so abused by his owners. etc. These are topics i start to try to get people to act upon things like this.
I start topic about dangerous drugs and meds like ProHeart6 and rimadyl to warn poeple so they will have an idea of what could happen if their dogs are put on these drugs. Sometimes i start topics about funny things my dogs have done, or like last week about my 17 year old cat dying. But i am not going to start a topic about cropping and docking.
I bet that pittie you are talking about is one I saw pictures of on another all breed board (about a year ago) and I think the SOB's that did it should spend many, many years in jail. People that do these kinds of things, and like the above mentioned, are sick and many end up killing humans, some even turn into serial killers.
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:42:16 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
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Quote dusty082155: that pittie pup incident happened by where i live. i havent heard anymore about it on the news. as far as i know, they still have not caught the one/s that actually did it.
a local group is offering... |
That's heinous. |
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:45:22 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
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| Quote Threegoldens: Believe me, I do not go around preaching about it and starting topics aboutit. I just say what I feel when I see the topic already going. I start topics about things like the puppy doused with acie,... |
Yea it's been about a year now. You could see the grill stripes all over her, and she was completely emaciated.....Every bone was sticking up from under the skin pulled so tight. I was horrified. |
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:57:55 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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Dusty--I saw those pictures and I cried and cried. Foxfire, they not only doused her with acid, they poured it in her mouth. I cry as I remember them now. I posted the story on all my golden boards (it had already hit the all breed boards) and many, as I did, sent e-mails to the people at the paper and in charge demanding the fullest harshest treatment possible when the creature/creatures that did it was caught.
And Dobiegurl, your statement "I coudn't care less what happens in other countries" floors me. You DO NOT care that our rain forests are being destroyed? You DO NOT care that one country is killing hundreds of whales or that that another is killing thousands of sharks just for their fins and eventaully this will totally upset the eco system in the sea? You DO NOT care that baby seals, leopards, etc are hunted and killed so women can have expensive fur coats? All this happens in other countries. From your snide remarks about hugging trees etc, it appears the only thing that concerns you is if you will always be able to dock and crop. |
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| foxfire_ga79 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 10:59:49 PM |
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Active: 12-10-2005
Posts: 4801
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| Quote Threegoldens: Dusty--I saw those pictures and I cried and cried. Foxfire, they not only doused her with acid, they poured it in her mouth. I cry as I remember them now. I posted the story on all my golden boards... |
I think she meant she doesn't care about docking and cropping in other countries.....Could be wrong, but that's the way it sounded.
And tree hugging will ALWAYS be a funny wise crack. lol |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/20/2006 11:23:04 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
Posts: 659
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Quote foxfire_ga79: I think she meant she doesn't care about docking and cropping in other countries.....Could be wrong, but that's the way it sounded.
And tree hugging will ALWAYS be a funny wise crack. lol |
Yeah that what I meant.
One thing that really gets to me is killing animals for fur so that stupid, gawdy people can look like bears (IMO). I seen this video of how then skin animals, and most are alive while being skinned and then thrown to the corner to die in pain. Those are the things I will fight not something as foolish as cropping and docking.
I do care about IMPORTANT issues going on over seas but the irrelevent, non abusive issues such as cropping and docking does not affect me and I will not concern myself with something so foolish as that. You don't want to crop / dokc your Dog thats fine, but while you are acussing people (not referring to you threegolden, in general) of being inhumane I will be out there fighting real abusive issues while my cropped and docked dobie sits at home waiting for me to come home. |
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