| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/17/2006 11:39:38 AM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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| Quote Dobiegurl313: It is my choice and I love the look of a cropped and docked Dobie. I think a Dobie that is all natural does not show the real beauty of a Doberman and IMO are ugly. If I cannot crop and dock my Dobies... |
I don't understand this statement at all. If you can't crop and dock your dobie you would find another breed to fall in love with. If you loved dobies all that much AS A BREED and NOT AS A LOOK, why would you change breed because they couldn't have stand up ears and no tail?
i didn't fall in love with goldens because of looks. I fell in love with them as a breed. It makes no difference if they are a red golden like our 11 year old, a medium golden like a 6 1/2 year old or a pale golden like our 4 year old. It doesn't make any difference if they have super long fur like the girls, or shorter fur like the old man.
I think goldens are beautiful, but my falling in love with them had nothing to do with looks. It had to do with gentleness, with them being a puppy almost forever, for their comic capers, etc. And I would NEVER betray them and go to another breed because i couldn't do this or that to them. It is the BREED, not the LOOK that is important to me.
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/17/2006 2:21:09 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
Posts: 659
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| Quote Threegoldens: I don't understand this statement at all. If you can't crop and dock your dobie you would find another breed to fall in love with. If you loved dobies all that much AS A BREED and NOT AS A LOOK, why... |
Well thats you, not me. I love the temperament and attitude of a Doberman, but I still want a Dog that is beautiful, in my eyes.
When looking for a breed, I judged alot of it on looks. Call me superficial, but its my personal choice.
There are many breeds I can find, similar to the Doberman who has erect ears, and if my right to crop/dock was taken from me, I would be searching for a new breed with naturally erect ears.
I really can't stand poeple who judge me for my opinions. Just because I'm not saying what YOU want to hear doesn't make it wrong, I don't like natural dobies and thats my opinion and if I am forced to keep them natural then I will find a new breed. |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/17/2006 2:24:39 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
Posts: 659
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Quote krfrww: It is NOBODYS right to judge somebody based on how they prefer their dogs to look.
Personally, I think the Dobe is beautiful natural or cropped, I just prefer cropped. Call me not a Dog lover, if you... |
I totally agree with you. I have my own opinion, along with everyone else and just because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean its wrong. |
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/17/2006 2:40:13 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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To me it still sounds like it is the ears and tails--or lack of--that you love, not the Dog breed itself. I just can't imagine anyone that truly loves a breed of Dog would refuse to get one becuase 1. they think they are ugly and 2. they can't cut off the tail and part of the ears to change their looks.
I was taught that you love humans and animals for what is on the inside, not for looks. And I am to old to change that belief. |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/17/2006 3:09:01 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
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| Quote Threegoldens: To me it still sounds like it is the ears and tails--or lack of--that you love, not the Dog breed itself. I just can't imagine anyone that truly loves a breed of Dog would refuse to get one becuase 1.... |
I do love the inside, but I prefer to look at a Dog and enjoys its beauty as well.
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/18/2006 4:21:16 AM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
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You fell in love with your Dog before he was cropped, right? Was he not beautiful then?
No-one's judging you based on your opinion, we just can't understand how you can say one Dog is beautiful yet the other is ugly when there's virtually no difference between the two.
Though I prefer natural dogs I haven't said that I'd refuse to take in a docked and cropped rescue dog. You prefer cropped but would you adopt a natural dog? Or would it be too ugly? One day you'll meet a natural Dobe that steals your heart. |
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| puglet |
| Posted 4/18/2006 9:38:01 AM |
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Active: 12-30-2005
Posts: 830
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Quote GraceEmily: You fell in love with your Dog before he was cropped, right? Was he not beautiful then?
No-one's judging you based on your opinion, we just can't understand how you can say one Dog is beautiful yet... |
, i just dont get how cutting pieces off a Dog makes it more beautiful. I was at a Dog show today and i saw a couple of dobes with natural ears but no tails and their ears were lovely, all floppy and cute, they were such lovely dogs. How anyone can say they actually think they are UGLY is beyond me. a preference is one thing but to want to find a new breed if cropping and docking is made illegal is quite another. |
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/18/2006 11:45:19 AM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
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That's exactly how I feel, Puglet. If you love a breed, you love a breed for the whole of it - not for what you can do with its ears and tail. To me, if you could so easily give up a breed just because you can no longer do those things to its ears and tail, you can't be that comitted to it. And if you're considering breeding, you really need to have that kind of committment. |
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| shay05 |
| Posted 4/18/2006 11:49:47 AM |
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Active: 08-23-2005
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| Quote puglet: , i just dont get how cutting pieces off a Dog makes it more beautiful. I was at a Dog show today and i saw a couple of dobes with natural ears but no tails and their ears were lovely, all floppy... |
I Agree also. I love natural ears on most dogs. However if it was mine, I'd love it nomatter what. But beleive it or not, I've had someone tell me the same thing, that a dobie with uncropped ears doesn't look right, but theres was that way. It confused me. |
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/18/2006 11:56:43 AM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
Posts: 1031
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I don't see how any animal can look 'right'.
They can conform to standard but that won't be 'right' in everyone's view because everyone will interpret the standard differently.
As for the 'right' look being cropped, I feel compelled to disagree - how can the 'right' look be a surgical modification of a perfectly good ear?
And this stuff about natural dogs having to have their ears held up at shows, while I have no real objection to it, I don't see why it has to be done - the judge should be able to see a correct pendant ear as easily as a correct cropped ear. Or am I expecting too much of judges? |
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| krfrww |
| Posted 4/18/2006 12:06:17 PM |
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Active: 10-01-2005
Posts: 597
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Quote GraceEmily: I don't see how any animal can look 'right'.
They can conform to standard but that won't be 'right' in everyone's view because everyone will interpret the standard differently.
As for the 'right' look... |
They don't hold the ears up in order to see the ear shape. They have to order to see the HEAD shape.
Floppy ears on a Doberman cover up it's head shape. By shadowing it, as well as just plain covering it. So they need to hold up the ears in order for the judges to see that the Doberman's head itself, conforms to breed standard. Nothing at all to do with ears conforming. |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/18/2006 12:10:15 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
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| Quote puglet: , i just dont get how cutting pieces off a Dog makes it more beautiful. I was at a Dog show today and i saw a couple of dobes with natural ears but no tails and their ears were lovely, all floppy... |
No one asked you to get anything. That is your opinion of cropping, but I had plans if cropping my Dobie before I even got him.
I HATE floppy ears, and just because you like them doesn't mean I have to.
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/18/2006 12:39:29 PM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
Posts: 1031
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Quote Dobiegurl313: No one asked you to get anything. That is your opinion of cropping, but I had plans if cropping my Dobie before I even got him.
I HATE floppy ears, and just because you like them doesn't mean I have... |
"I HATE floppy ears".
But you fell for your Dog while his ears were floppy, yes? So you can't have hated them that much. No-one's attacking your opinion or your right to have it, we're just attempting to understand why it is you feel the way you do.
Thank you for clarifying the showing ears thing, I think I've said before that I'm not from the US so I don't altogether understand the showing system there. I think here (UK) the ear is seen as contributing to the shape of the head rather than detracting from it. |
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| puglet |
| Posted 4/18/2006 12:40:17 PM |
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Active: 12-30-2005
Posts: 830
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Quote Dobiegurl313: No one asked you to get anything. That is your opinion of cropping, but I had plans if cropping my Dobie before I even got him.
I HATE floppy ears, and just because you like them doesn't mean I have... |
I thought the whole point of this forum was to express opinions and learn from each other. I merely stated that i didnt understand your argument. theres no need to act like a spoilt child. i didnt try to change ur opinion, just to state that i didnt agree with it. |
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/18/2006 1:39:02 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
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| Quote puglet: I thought the whole point of this forum was to express opinions and learn from each other. I merely stated that i didnt understand your argument. theres no need to act like a spoilt child. i didnt try... |
And I never asked you to understand anything. You have your opinions and I have mine.
My Dog did have floppy ears when I got him, but I knew it was temporary. |
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/18/2006 1:44:54 PM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
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There's no problem with people trying to understand your opinions, is there? At least puglet is trying to have some kind of reasoned debate with you over this rather than just saying 'you crop you dogs so I don't like you'.
Is it just the look of floppy ears that you 'hate' or is there some other problem that you have with them? Maintenance, risk of infection, etc?
And would you ever adopt an uncropped dog? If the breeders of Chico had asked, or included in their contract, that you not crop him, would you have still bought him? |
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| dusty082155 |
| Posted 4/18/2006 2:01:44 PM |
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Active: 05-15-2005
Posts: 476
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i understand what you are saying Dobiegurl313. when we are searching for a breed, we are attracted to the ones that catch our eye. we may read up on temperment and personality issues, BUT we are first attracted by what we SEE. i had never seen a french bulldog before. while watching the westminster Dog show, hubby and i got our first look at one. when it came out, we both looked at each other and said thats it ! that is what we want. then we started researching the breed and breeders.
with dobes, i had always seen the cropped ones. i was struck by how beautiful and regal they looked. when i saw the first uncropped dobe, it didnt look right to me. same with boxers, danes and a few other breeds. i was used to the other look. yes, maybe it is the same breed, but we as humans, are attracted first by what we see. thats why everyone has different tastes, we do not all percieve things the same way.
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/18/2006 2:02:22 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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if for some reason the Dog could not have had his ears cropped, would you have dumped him because he had the "floppy ears" you hate and you would have thought him ugly and you want your Dog to "look perfect".
I love floppy ears, I love to watch a Dog perk his ear up in antipation of treat, etc. However, I most certainly would not want to see sugery done to huskies, shepherds, chihuahuas. etc so their ears would "be floppy." I think they are beautiful just the way they are,the way they WERE INTENDED TO BE.
I most certainly understand surgery for health reasons, but not for just because somehwere back down the line someone thought cutting off tails and pieces of ears made a Dog "look better."
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| Dobiegurl313 |
| Posted 4/18/2006 2:29:12 PM |
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Active: 01-11-2006
Posts: 659
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When I do look for another Dobie and the breeder added in the contract that I could not crop it then I would move on to a different breeder. There are many fish in the sea.
I just don't like floppy ears, first of all because to me there ugly and second of it puts them at risk for infection.
You can try to understand it but I'm NOT going to change my mind, so little mind games aren't going to work. I will crop all my Dobies because of personal preference. And yes, threegoldens, it is cosmetic and I did it mostly for cosmetic reasons. You should live with a puppy who just got their ears cropped, and you will realize its not as painful as you think. My Dog ran into walls, banged his ears and not once whined. I was the one freaking out everytime he hit his ears because I thought he hurt himself and not once did he cry.
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/18/2006 2:57:43 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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Since no Dog has ever told me something hurt or didn't hurt, I do not assume it doesn't hurt because they don't carry on like---err men. (My Hubby wuld not like that statement). However, I do know that the weak and injured animals are the ones preyed upon. It is built into them not to show pain or weakness. And most do not. There are some however that scream and cry over everything. But probably 99% try to hide pain or weakness.
And I have to wonder why a vet would prescribe pain pills if the Dog was not in pain. |
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