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Ear cropping |
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| _wolf_ |
| Posted 4/14/2006 10:41:39 PM |
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Active: 01-03-2006
Posts: 1535
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I know that different vets have different prices, but in general, is ear cropping very expensive (like, almost a hundred dollars or more)? |
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| APBTlover |
| Posted 4/15/2006 9:43:00 AM |
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Active: 08-15-2005
Posts: 2196
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| Quote _wolf_: I know that different vets have different prices, but in general, is ear cropping very expensive (like, almost a hundred dollars or more)? |
Ear cropping prices depend on what area you are in. We had our dobie's done for around 150. the vet cut them too large and they didnt stand. that was done in arkansas..in texas it ranges around 200. depending on the vet and here in nebraska it ranges from 200-300. if you do get a Dog that you get the ears cropped be sure to follow your vet's directions very carefully. i do not think that this surgery is as bad/wrong as people say it is...our Dog was on pain pills and acted like it never even bothered him. |
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| _wolf_ |
| Posted 4/15/2006 11:08:52 AM |
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Active: 01-03-2006
Posts: 1535
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I don't think it's as bad, either. |
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| Threegoldens |
| Posted 4/15/2006 1:06:40 PM |
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Active: 10-27-2005
Posts: 201
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I had never thought about ear cropping and tail docking until I was in recovery with KayCee after her spay and there was a dobbie in there that had had his ears done that morning before KayCee was spayed.
The Dog had acutally had his ears done at a large, modern up-to-date hospital in Corpus and the job was botched. My vet at the time was in the practixe he had just bought out. The building was like 50 years old and tiny, one exam room, etc. But he is a great vet and he redid the ears. (By the wy, he now has a new building with 4 exam rooms, large ICU and recovery, seperate isolation, in house lab, operating room with 2 heated operating tables, etrc, and has another vet working with him, about 5 techs, kennel workers, 4 receptionists, a groomer, etc.)
Anway, that poor dobbie was in his cage just moaning and he looked so pitiful and sounded even worse. I thought right then why would anyone put their Dog thru unnecessary pain. Spay and neuter is bad enough, but at least they are for health and population control. Ear cropping and tail docking is done because sometime ago someone decided certain breeds should have half, short or no tails and some breeds should have stand up ears instead of flop down ears.
In many countries it is considered animal abuse to crop ears or dock tails. When i watch the English Dog show, Crufts, I notice dobbies, danes, etc have flop ears. Anyway, it is not something I would do. |
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| krfrww |
| Posted 4/15/2006 1:19:43 PM |
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Active: 10-01-2005
Posts: 597
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Quote Threegoldens: I had never thought about ear cropping and tail docking until I was in recovery with KayCee after her spay and there was a dobbie in there that had had his ears done that morning before KayCee was spayed.
The... |
The Dobe could be moaning for MANY reasons. When my sister brought her Dobes here to stay (they were already cropped and docked, years before they ever came to stay with us), every time she'd put her Dobe in the cage it'd moan and sound like it was hurt.
When you dock a tail, you do it when they're like 3 days old. At 3 days old, they DO NOT have a finished nervous system, hence docking doesn't hurt a dog. Originally tails were docked in order to prevent tails from being broken in working/hunting breeds. Since the tail is one of the hardest places on a Dog to heal, they docked them to prevent injury.
Ear cropping, which is generally done at 7-8 weeks of age, also doesn't hurt as much as you displayed. They're under anesthesia the entire time of the operation (about 30 minutes, or so) and only that time. Most of the time, AFTER the ear cropping (right after anesthesia) the FIRST thing the puppy wants to do is eat. Which just proves how much it doesn't actually hurt. Ear cropping serves for many purposes, even in this day and age. It was originally created, however when the Dobermans were used strictly for police/military work, so that way the criminal would have nothing to hold on to. Today's day and age, it also cuts down on ear infections, since a flapping ear contributes to dark areas for bacteria to grow. It also prevents the ear from tearing, etc etc.
If you're against cropping and docking, are you also against removing the dew claws? Just out of curiosity.... |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 4/15/2006 1:55:41 PM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
Posts: 399
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| Quote _wolf_: I know that different vets have different prices, but in general, is ear cropping very expensive (like, almost a hundred dollars or more)? |
My last litter is 18 months old now, and I believe the cost for cropping (and tattooing at the same time) was about $250 per puppy.
And for the person who commented on the moaning - that could simply have been a response to the anesthetic or it could simply be that Dobermans generally really dislike being left alone. |
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| dusty082155 |
| Posted 4/15/2006 2:23:56 PM |
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Active: 05-15-2005
Posts: 476
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Quote MaryAndDobes: My last litter is 18 months old now, and I believe the cost for cropping (and tattooing at the same time) was about $250 per puppy.
And for the person who commented on the moaning - that could simply... |
i took tiger lily, my baby french bulldog, into the vet for a recheck on her eyes. which are totally cleared up now, thank goodness. while in the exam room, waiting for the vet to come in, i heard this very soulfull moaning. it was a Dog and it went on for quite awhile. tiger lily was listening intently and cocking her head back and forth. when the vet tech came in to tell me the dr would be in soon, i asked her why the Dog was doing that. she said he was waking up from anesthesia and that dogs will do that when they start coming around. |
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| puppyhelp99 |
| Posted 4/15/2006 2:28:26 PM |
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Active: 03-12-2006
Posts: 223
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bump. |
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| puglet |
| Posted 4/15/2006 3:29:40 PM |
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Active: 12-30-2005
Posts: 830
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what a coincidence, i was just about to start a topic about docking and cropping after a conversation with a girl in work who was saying about a friend of hers who is a breeder whose dobe pups are all in casts after having their ears cropped.
I have to say i was pretty horrified. i have heard of docking tails and stuff but i assumed it was something illegal done in the olden days, and i know it sound really stupid, but i actually thought rotties, dobes and boxers just naturally didnt have a tail since ive never really been in contact with any of these breeds and ive never seen one with a tail.
I think in other posts, people have said that its done because the dogs have a job, like guard dogs etc and so its safer for them, but im still pretty disturbed to think of tiny pups getting their tails cut off and ears broken.
What i was wondering was, do these breeds have to be docked and cropped to be showed? im asking because, my friend said that docking etc was illegal over here and it was done under the counter by vets. if this is so, then how can it be a necessity to do it for the show ring?
Im just totally in the dark about this and would appreciate any information concerning these procedures and the reasoning behind it. |
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/15/2006 3:36:57 PM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
Posts: 1031
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| Quote krfrww: The Dobe could be moaning for MANY reasons. When my sister brought her Dobes here to stay (they were already cropped and docked, years before they ever came to stay with us), every time she'd put her Dobe... |
More recent studies of the canine nervous system actually suggest that Puppies do feel the pain of docking (possibly even more pain than adult dogs) but, due to their underdeveloped nervous system, the time it takes for them to register the pain is prolonged, so during the docking process they don't appear to be in pain.
Also, while a correct docking may not be painless or uncomfortable in later life, I have seen more botched dockings than correct dockings and these cause visible irritation to the dogs.
One of the arguments against docking is that it prevents injury which may require surgery under anaesthetic later in life, putting the Dog at risk. Yet this goes hand in hand with an argument in favour of a cosmetic cropping surgery carried out under anaesthetic? Please explain to me how that makes sense.
Also, if cropping doesn't hurt the dogs, why was ABPTlover's Dog on "pain pills"? I come from a country in which cropping is illegal (and docking is soon to be made illegal) so don't fully understand or appreciate the reasons for cropping. Ear infections in Dobermanns, Great Danes, etc. are no more common here than in the US, to the best of my knowledge - regular cleaning of pendant ears keeps them infection free. |
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| APBTlover |
| Posted 4/15/2006 3:53:52 PM |
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Active: 08-15-2005
Posts: 2196
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I dont think anyone ever said this is a pain free time for a dog..when the ears are done. With every surgery comes pain no matter how large or small. Our dobie was on pain pill for 48 hrs. and then we used hemroid cream for the itching. I can honestly say he was the best Dog through this all..his were done around 10 wks of age and he never whined, yelped ect. when we had to change his dressings on his ears. He would never try to bite us or anything, just wait for us to get it done so he could go and play.
about the docking..the Puppies may feel it, but they are so small that they will never remember it. When women have babies and they are boys they circumsize(sp?) them...it hurts them too but they dont remember it. So if people do that to their own newborn sons then i dont think it is so wrong to dock a pup's tail if they will never remember it. |
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| _wolf_ |
| Posted 4/15/2006 3:59:07 PM |
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Active: 01-03-2006
Posts: 1535
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Why do people think it's cruel to have a cat de-clawed? Does it harm them? |
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| krfrww |
| Posted 4/15/2006 4:03:47 PM |
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Active: 10-01-2005
Posts: 597
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| Quote GraceEmily: More recent studies of the canine nervous system actually suggest that Puppies do feel the pain of docking (possibly even more pain than adult dogs) but, due to their underdeveloped nervous system, the... |
I believe the Dog was on pain pills for ear cropping, not tail docking. And I never said there were "legitimate" reasons as for docking today, other than how it makes the Dog look. But when Dobes were first around, there was a legit reason for tail docking. And truthfully, I've seen more good dockings, than bad.. it really depends on where you live. I'm assuming you live outside of the US though, since not many places have a cropping/docking ban, but that could be a reason why. Do to the fact that elsewhere they do see it as possible abuse, which means you don't have many vets who are practiced in it. Which means you have more botched surgeries, which means you have more bad tail dockings. Any where you go, there are going to be botched surgeries, be it tail docking, or spaying and neutering. Any and every surgery can go wrong. That's why it's so important to get a person who is experienced in the type of ear crop you want, as well as the docking. In my area, however, all the Dobes are have great ear and docking crops.
Puglet, as far as I know, Dobes ARE being accepted in some (most) shows natural, however the person must hold their ears up. Some natural Dobes have won shows, though.
Wolf, some people consider anything that makes an animal "unnatural" to be cruel. Declawing doesn't hurt the cat, HOWEVER, you don't want to remove the back claws. They only use the front ones to "mark" they're territory and release their scent, but they use the BACK ones to defend themselves if they ever get attacked (grabbing with their teeth, rolling up, and kicking with their back claws). |
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| dusty082155 |
| Posted 4/15/2006 4:04:14 PM |
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Active: 05-15-2005
Posts: 476
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i dont think de-clawing is cruel as much as if the cat is declawed and does get outside , he/she has NO protection from dogs, another cat, etc. it can not even climb a tree to get to safety. both my cats are indoor only. neither of them is declawed. i just bought them a scratching post and clip their nails when needed. |
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| APBTlover |
| Posted 4/15/2006 4:05:38 PM |
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Active: 08-15-2005
Posts: 2196
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| Quote _wolf_: Why do people think it's cruel to have a cat de-clawed? Does it harm them? |
I dont think de-clawing hurts. my brother had their cat de-clawed. It came home w/bandages around its feet that fell off w/in a few days. the cat ran around as normal and acted like nothing had ever happened. i honestly dont prefer de-clawing..cause if the cat goes outside they cant protect themselves w/their front claws. |
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| krfrww |
| Posted 4/15/2006 4:06:17 PM |
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Active: 10-01-2005
Posts: 597
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| Quote dusty082155: i dont think de-clawing is cruel as much as if the cat is declawed and does get outside , he/she has NO protection from dogs, another cat, etc. it can not even climb a tree to get to safety. both my cats... |
If the back claws are remained in tact, they DO have protection. They don't use their front claws for anything more than pawing with smaller things than them. |
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| dusty082155 |
| Posted 4/15/2006 4:15:49 PM |
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Active: 05-15-2005
Posts: 476
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| Quote krfrww: If the back claws are remained in tact, they DO have protection. They don't use their front claws for anything more than pawing with smaller things than them. |
http://www.catscratching.com/#declaw |
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| krfrww |
| Posted 4/15/2006 4:21:28 PM |
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Active: 10-01-2005
Posts: 597
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That's assuming that you COMPLETELY declaw a cat.
Cat's front paws are NOT their primary protection set. It's their back. Have you ever irritated a cat that it bit you? Bites your hand, curls up, and kicks you with their back claws until you move?
Their front paws are used for swatting and playing with smaller animals, such as mice, rats, birds etc. They rarely use those as a defense other than a "warning" swat.
Either way, declawing a cat isn't cruel, unless you completely declaw them, which is what the original question was.
Also, for future reference, my cats aren't declawed. It's not a thing I'd personally want for my cats. However, it's not as dangerous as anti-declawing sites say it is. |
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| doggylove101 |
| Posted 4/15/2006 5:00:28 PM |
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Active: 03-21-2006
Posts: 261
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| Quote _wolf_: Why do people think it's cruel to have a cat de-clawed? Does it harm them? |
some people feel it's cruel because a cat will not be able to defend itself if attacked by a Dog or another cat. It also is likely the cat will suffer pain after the surgery and may be reluctant to stand, walk or jump until the toes are fully healed. Also some people just do it so their cat won't scratch the furniture, which others disagree with.  |
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| GraceEmily |
| Posted 4/15/2006 5:23:14 PM |
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Active: 01-06-2006
Posts: 1031
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| Quote puglet: what a coincidence, i was just about to start a topic about docking and cropping after a conversation with a girl in work who was saying about a friend of hers who is a breeder whose dobe pups are all... |
I know you're in Ireland so I'm not sure if the laws are the same there as they are for me here in the UK but cropping has been illegal for many years now (I'm not sure exactly how many but almost two decades at least). As such, cropped dogs cannot be shown here.
Docked dogs may still be shown and (due to an exemption for working dogs from the ban of docking) will probably continue to be shown here. Undocked dogs can also be shown but, because most judges are of the old school of thought over this many, there appears to be an unwritten law against placing undocked members of a traditionally docked breed.
Sadly, breeders of the best dogs know this so, to keep their dogs from sustaining this unfair bias, many refuse to leave any dogs undocked. Unless they can prove that their dogs are for working purposes, however, they should now have no dogs docked. (starting I don't know when.) |
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