| BabyBellasMom |
| Posted 4/28/2008 4:49:49 PM |
 |
|
|
Active: 04-28-2008
Posts: 10
|
Has anybody recently bought a papillion puppy from an Oklahoma breeder?? If so, are you having any health problems? |
|
|
| suebgone |
| Posted 4/28/2008 5:08:14 PM |
|
|
|
 
Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3359
|
what is it you need HELP with? you have taken the Dog to the vet yes? |
|
|
| BabyBellasMom |
| Posted 4/28/2008 9:31:51 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-28-2008
Posts: 10
|
We've been to the vet MANY times already and are still going...emergency and family vet. Exactly 2 weeks after I got my puppy she became very sick. I took her to the emergency vet (due to the late hour) and found out she was incredibly infested with Hookworms. She almost died those first couple of days. I returned to my family vet last week (one of MANY trips) for more care and now they've found Strongyle Worms too. We're treating her with the necessary drugs but my baby is so sick. I'm a 24 hr. nursemaid to her as she is unwilling to eat - though I'm force feeding her throughout the day, she's not drinking enough - again I'm forcing that too, and she is so weak she can barely stand up and walk without falling over. She is a shell of what she used to be. She is trying so hard and I'm going to do anything I can to help her. It's a shame she is going through this and it was completely avoidable. She had to have been severely infected when I bought her because I know, being told by the vets too, that the incubation period for both of these worm is 2-3 weeks. I've contacted the breeder and have heard nothing and I'm sure I won't. I was curious if the other Puppies in the litter were having the same problems. I know the breeder was shipping 2 males the same day I met her to pick up my puppy. |
|
|
| moggie |
| Posted 4/28/2008 10:59:39 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
|
can you give more information?? what are you feeding her?? how often and how much?? what method are you using?? do you have her on any supplements?? how are her stools?? are you using pedialite in place of water?? vitamins?? are you sure she is not having any upper respiratory symptoms?? has she been checked for coccidia and giardia?? what meds do you have her on?? how much does she weigh?? what are the dosages of the meds you are using??
|
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 4/28/2008 11:07:35 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
it would be almost impossible to track a breeder of paps alone out of the thousands that are on here, so the odds of finding the person on the forum is very slim.
I would make a report to the breeders state department of Ag and the BBB.
I know several years ago I had a litter of German shepherds and they had been dewormed with both nemonex 2 and safe guard (panacur) and I honestly did not know that the Puppies did not get ride of the worms. However once I found out I did call every one of the previous puppy buyers and make things right, so yes honest mistakes can be made, but a half butt breeder has still the responsiblity of making things right.
Parviad may help her a pretty good bit if her tummy is still having a hard time coping.
Im sorry that you have had to go through this and I do hope the best for your puppy. |
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/28/2008 11:24:55 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
Despite best efforts, Puppies still get and can have worms. They aren't a toy, they are a living creature. Not all breeders do stool samples before releasing every litter.
So you are saying whip worms were the original problem, now the vet is saying strongyle worms.
I had to look up strongyle worms, it's usually a term used in horses. I think your vet was using that term to make things a lot more expensive for you. Which is OFTEN the case.
For everyone with out google (hahaha) Strongyle worms are just internal parasites and can mean anything from round worms, pin, hook or whips.
What is going on that your puppy is so ill after weeks from worms? I have heard that whips are difficult to treat, but the wormers, all wormers except for Drontal for tape worms are very inexpensive. Your vet probably has about $1 worth of wormer in to your 3-6 pound dog.
If the vet didn't catch it, how was the breeder supposed to? Or is this just the same whip worm infestation with a different name, because vet didn't eliminate it 100% either.
Is your vet just calling the whips Stonglyes because they don't want you to know they are still treating the whips. You need to ask.
If that's the case you have more than one BBB report.
Your puppy may have been treated for worms by the breeder, but the treatment (as you are seeing) may not have killed 100% of the worms, and you shouldn't over worm treat tiny breed Puppies. It still is an insecticide.
OK is a puppymill State. Is this a large USDA breeder that you got a puppy for a really 'good price'?
People pay for Puppies. one way or another. |
|
|
| BabyBellasMom |
| Posted 4/29/2008 1:46:07 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-28-2008
Posts: 10
|
First, let me clear things up regarding the Strongyles. They are not in the worm stage. They are Strongyle larvae. Strongylid eggs are unembryonated and are characteristic of hookworms of dogs and cats. The presence of this type of egg is usually indicative of a hookworm infection, which is what my puppy has. My vet is treating her with Panacur. My vet, whom I've been using for years, is not looking to add on additional problems and charges (most of the time I'm not even charged for all the treatment). I was shown the larvae alongside a reference book. I know they hookworms are still there (saw those too).
I'm happy to hear there are breeders out there that do the right thing once they are aware or notified of the problem. Any decent person/breeder with a conscience and a heart should and would.
I've sent copies of all the vet care and charges to the breeder with no response. She obviously has no heart or conscience. I'll give her one more opportunity to respond. If she doesn't, I will definitely be taking legal action against her and I've already completed the paperwork to report her to many difference agencies.
I appreciate all the nice thoughts and comments. I'm seeing small improvements in my puppy. I think and hope, with her only being 1.5 lbs it's just going to take time. |
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/29/2008 2:12:18 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
This is going to be sounding kind of harsh, but honestly your puppy had whip worms. Get over it.
I was raised on a farm and I can tell you despite best efforts EVERY KIND OF ANIMAL gets worms or can be exposed to worms. It does not always reflect care given or not given.
As you are finding out--Whips probably are one of the nastier worms to treat. You are kind of vilifying this breeder when I doubt there was ANY malicious intent.
The puppy did not become ill for 2 weeks AFTER YOU HAD IT. I guess on the first vet exam you should have also got a fecal done so the worms could have been caught earlier.
If the Dog was in your care all that time, you also have some responsibility in letting her get so sick that she nearly died.
Most breeders do not cover parasites in their contract, especially for a full 14 days so good luck.
But as I said wormers are generally very very inexpensive. Including Panacur, which if you hadn't have taken her to the vet for GOD only knows what testing, it would be about $5 for the actual wormer to the WORMS that are at the heart of this problem. |
|
|
| moggie |
| Posted 4/29/2008 2:27:03 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
|
 i have read your post over and over. please understand that i feel bad for your puppy and i also understand that you are upset. i have only the best intentions here. i feel like there is something missing here. what you are saying makes no sense to me. strongyles and hookworms are two totally different things. strongyloides are thread worms. panacur will treat both these types of worms, however this should have been cleared up by now. the usual dosage of panacur is .01 per# for 5 days in a row. i cant help but think that something more is going on here. i asked several questions in my last post that were very important questions. is there any possibility that your puppy could also have an upper respiratory issue going on?? what are you feeding her?? how much and how often?? nutrical?? pedialite??what are her stools looking like?? i understand you are upset, however worms in Puppies are a very common thing and i really think the breeder should have worked harder on a deworming program, however i dont think that she needs to be crucified for this. did you get a health certificate with your puppy?? if so, a fecal exam would have been done. fecals come back negative lots of times when they shouldnt. im sorry, i just cant help but think that there is something more going on here...something that is being missed. |
|
|
| BabyBellasMom |
| Posted 4/29/2008 8:43:17 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-28-2008
Posts: 10
|
I do accept responsibility for some of this. I am an intelligent, logical person. I am responsible for not taking her to the vet immediately after I got her. I listened mistakenly to the breeder when told to follow up with my vet in two weeks.
I am aware Puppies get worms.I am also aware of the fact that there is no way this Dog is sick because of me. My maltese lived in this house with the same yard for 14 yrs. and NEVER, not once, was she sick in her life.I do understand that all dogs are different too.This puppy has not been left alone for a min. without someone watching her.When you have several vets, vet techs, and vet professionals telling you this Dog came with these problems and knowing she has not EVER been out of eyeshot of anyone, there's not any room for speculation.
With that being said, when she was first taken to the emergency vet they did these tests: Parvo-blood-negative/no signs in levels to suggest it,Parvo-fecal-negative, x-rays to make sure there's no obstructions anywhere-negative,Heart-very strong, lungs-clear, no temperature since the first night she was sick, fecal for worms-positive-hookworms. Any testing she went thru was necessary to find out exactly why she was sick. The earlier comment of "God knows what testing" she had been put thru was just a waste of space.
She is currently on Panacur-.01 1xdaily for 10 days (maybe they extended it after the recent discovery of the larvae??)She is fed Science Diet a/d thinned with orphan formula (a vets recipe)every 3 hours thru a syringe b/c she has no desire to really eat.She drinks diluted Pedialyte (1/2 Ped. 1/2 water) She gets a very small dose of Karo syrup a few times a day to get her blood glucose levels stabilized. Never during the worst of her illness has she had diarrhea. Her stools now are solid but understandably small. Nothing unusual about them.
My concern and confusion is this: If the worm med. is doing what it should and we're seeing improvements there, why still does she not want to eat? Also, she was doing very well with the housebreaking and going outside. Now she urinates everywhere. Could she maybe have a bladder infection? She has no probs going potty though. I've been thru several pkgs. of potty training pads.
Moggie...any ideas? I'm taking her back to the vet tomorrow and I could run some thoughts by her. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. |
|
|
| moggie |
| Posted 4/29/2008 8:56:39 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
|
 I see...so...what you are telling me is that all she has had to eat since falling ill is the a/d and the vet formula?? they love a/d at first and then they usually absolutely hate it...here is exactly what i would do if it were my puppy...i would go get a couple of jars of chicken or beef baby food...and offer it to her..i would be willing to bet you she'll jump right in...perfectly safe...if she will not eat it...i would start to look at other issues...upper respiratory..the first thing that happens here is that the puppy loses its sense of smell and will NOT eat...giardia, enteritis, coccidia...???? im willing to bet its what she has to eat that she hates...they also will dive into little caesars puppy...she should be getting at least 15 to 18 cc's of food every 4 hours around the clock...how much did the vet suggest?? if it is any less than this...she may be just getting enough to survive...please let us know how she does!!!!! |
|
|
| BabyBellasMom |
| Posted 4/29/2008 9:00:08 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-28-2008
Posts: 10
|
Thanks! You're right about the a/d. She doesn't seem to appreciate it at all anymore. I'm going to the store now. I hope this works. Cross your fingers. I'll let you know. |
|
|
| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/29/2008 9:51:58 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
|
Quote beaglebrat: This is going to be sounding kind of harsh, but honestly your puppy had whip worms. Get over it.
I was raised on a farm and I can tell you despite best efforts EVERY KIND OF ANIMAL gets worms or can... |
edited maoseger |
|
|
| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/29/2008 9:58:48 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
|
| Quote BabyBellasMom: I do accept responsibility for some of this. I am an intelligent, logical person. I am responsible for not taking her to the vet immediately after I got her. I listened mistakenly to the breeder when... |
Don't beat yourself up over it..you have every right to vent about the breeder. None of ours have ever had worms. I would be interested to know what kind of environment your pup came from..was it more of a kennel, how many dogs does the breeder have?
It would seem to me it is very likely that if the breeder wasn't taking care of business it did come from her. Hope your pap gets well soon! |
|
|
| BabyBellasMom |
| Posted 4/29/2008 11:07:56 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-28-2008
Posts: 10
|
After doing a lot of recent research, come to find out this breeder has more of a zoo environment than a farm. She's got zebras, pigs, ostrich, horses (which she breeds and sells), all kinds of dogs, and monkey's (which after finding her website I saw with some Puppies and as a caption underneath read "so and so (monkey's name) babysitting the Puppies.!!! When I spoke with her she had said she only bred papillons. Not true at all.
What's done is done. My main focus is my puppy for now. Once I know she's going to be ok I'll pursue the other issues.
Thanks for the kind words! |
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/29/2008 11:13:27 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
| Quote BabyBellasMom: I do accept responsibility for some of this. I am an intelligent, logical person. I am responsible for not taking her to the vet immediately after I got her. I listened mistakenly to the breeder when... |
Oh Jesus lord, you should be mad and the emergency vets. You probably got screwed but it was WAY WAY more by the vets than by the breeder. Worms happen.
Seriously, x-rays and every test under the sun when a $12 fecal could have been preformed.
And.... maybe you were misinformed by the breeder or maybe you misunderstood.
People tend to ask 'when the next shots are due', which the answer is generally (if they are current) IN A FEW WEEKS. That doesn't not mean that you should not have your vet check out the puppy as soon as you get it.
I get my Puppies vet checked a day or two before they leave, but it is also required in my contract that people have them checked by their own vet with in 72 hours and I will say that is for as much MY protection as theirs because I don't want this kind of crap to come up 2 weeks later if my vet HAPPENED to miss something that starts minor and turns in to a major issue.
Not to mention, then the vet can look over the paperwork and get the next vaccinations set up. Yes, it is kind of a WASTED $30-50 for the family, but then they KNOW that their vet feels nothing is wrong, they tend to believe it more than a 'vet check' on a sheet of paper.
|
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/29/2008 11:15:09 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
| Quote PerfectPom: edited maoseger |
Wonderful day, but mole hills are never mountains. I get sick of average pet families being taken advantage of by vets looking to make a fortune on WORMS.
They are also the first to BLAME THE EVIL BREEDER in these situations. Just give the puppy some wormer and call it a day.
edited m |
|
|
| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/29/2008 11:37:51 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
|
Quote beaglebrat: Wonderful day, but mole hills are never mountains. I get sick of average pet families being taken advantage of by vets looking to make a fortune on WORMS.
They are also the first to BLAME THE EVIL... |
Your opinion about vets overcharging and the OP's right to vent here about a breeder are two seperate issues. It sounds like you have been experiencing parasite problems for you to sound so off the hook with it. None of the dogs I've ever had as a kid or adult had worms or ever got them.
edited maoseger1010 |
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/30/2008 12:03:44 AM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
What the vets have charged her has EVERYTHING to do with her venting about a simple case of worms. That would be my point.
If the worms were diagnosed and treated FAIRLY in the first place, do you think she would be making this much 'to do' over $5 vet bill?
However, I think her bill is likely much much more than that, so she is seeking to 'blame' someone for her financial loss.
edited maoseger1010
|
|
|
| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/30/2008 12:22:28 AM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
|
Quote beaglebrat:
What the vets have charged her has EVERYTHING to do with her venting about a simple case of worms. That would be my point.
If the worms were diagnosed and treated FAIRLY in the first place, do you... |
Now that REALLY was senseless BANTER! |
|
|
Pet Lovers Discussion Forum 
