| echo50 |
| Posted 4/11/2008 9:23:15 PM |
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Active: 04-11-2008
Posts: 9
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I brought my puppy home on sunday today is friday and my puppy is at the vets fighting for his life with parvo. I contacted the breeder because my vet told me there was a 7 to 10 day incubation period. She said her vet told her 3 to 7 days. She said none of the Puppies she has left from the same litter are sick. She is trying to tell me my puppy got it after it left her house. She will not give a refund. I am not sure how to respond to her now to get my money back to help pay for tretment. Do I have a leg to stand on? |
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| kathystone |
| Posted 4/12/2008 12:40:16 AM |
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Active: 11-18-2007
Posts: 80
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Unfortunately, your breeder is correct. HOWEVER, the pup should have had at least it's first and second shot by 8 weeks. We do ours at 5 and 7 weeks and then tell the adopting owner to do it at 9 and 11 just to be sure. When the mother's immunity wears off the pup is vulnerable. The problem is WHEN does her immunity leave the pup to fend for himself? Some breeders wait til the pup is 8-9 weeks. The problem is that you don't know when he is at risk without doing a titer test. And studies have shown immunity wears off at 5-10 weeks so why take a chance?
IF your pup was given his shots prior to going to you and IF they took, he has a better chance of surviving.Parvo is very hard and expensive to treat but expense is one of those things that comes with pet ownership. Good luck! |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 4/12/2008 4:17:43 AM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3311
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if this puppy was shipped then that may have stimulated it.
according to protocol they should never get their first shot beffore 8 weeks |
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| echo50 |
| Posted 4/12/2008 8:17:46 AM |
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Active: 04-11-2008
Posts: 9
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He did get his first shots at 6 1/2 weeks old. I picked him up at 7 weeks old. 5 days later he's at the vets with parvo. |
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| wayne headlee |
| Posted 4/12/2008 5:18:51 PM |
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Active: 01-29-2008
Posts: 20
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we do our shots at five and seven weeks |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/12/2008 5:44:53 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
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I think a lot of breeders that have had Puppies with Parvo, give Parvo only shots at 5 weeks right at weaning, when the Puppies are most susceptible. The thought is, if you wait until 8 weeks you may have a dead puppy.
I don't give the first multiple virus vaccine until 8 weeks.
As far as OP, it is hard to say if the puppy had parvo or not. Are the littermates and other Puppies at her place sick? If not after 5 days, it very well could have picked it up just as easily with you.
A lot of info says that incubation is between 3-10 days, and that is very much in the time frame since you have had the puppy.
Based on the age, I know the puppy was not air shipped, how far did you drive with the puppy? Did you make any rest stops?
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| gbat1stop |
| Posted 4/12/2008 5:51:04 PM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 11-21-2004
Posts: 3651
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| Quote echo50: He did get his first shots at 6 1/2 weeks old. I picked him up at 7 weeks old. 5 days later he's at the vets with parvo. |
Pups who are still on breast milk have a natural immunity. Once they are weaned, the immunity wears off and thats where the shots kick in. Three days after shots are administered is not long enough for the immunity to kick back in and your pup is at very, VERY high risk until the second set of shots. Even then, they are at risk until ALL shots are administered which is no guarantee against disease.
The breeder should have never let him go at this age or without a second set of vaccinations. Even after a second set, there should have been specific instructions to have him vet checked within 24 hours and DO NOT allow him in public places. My vet has a "well puppy" room as well as a "new puppy" room along with their regular waiting room. This is a wonderful concept because those unwell pups can be separated from the healthy pups and the new Puppies have their own special area to wait. |
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| echo50 |
| Posted 4/12/2008 7:22:34 PM |
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Active: 04-11-2008
Posts: 9
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She said none of the other litter mates were sick. The vet said he could have gotten sick with it sooner because of the stress of a three hour drive and comming into a new house. We made no stops on the way home. I am guessing there is no way to prove he had it when he left the breeders unless her other Puppies come down with it and how do I know if they do or not? |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 4/12/2008 9:12:11 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
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Dr. Jean Dodds protocol is now being adopted by ALL 27 North American veterinary schools. I highly recommend that you read this. Copy and save it to your files. Print it and pass it out at Dog fairs, cat shows, kennel club meetings, Dog parks, give a copy to your veterinarian and groomer, etc., etc. Get the word out. ~~~~
Vaccination NEWSFLASH
I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical & economic challenge to vets, and there will be skeptics.
Some organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs. those concerned about potential side effects.
Politics, traditions, or the doctor's economic well being should not be a factor in medical decision.
NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY
"Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it
produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (ie:
canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced." Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. "There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual
administration of MLV vaccines." Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8-14 weeks.
Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year 4 mo) will provide lifetime immunity. |
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| emlee3 |
| Posted 4/12/2008 9:37:48 PM |
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Active: 02-11-2006
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| Quote suebgone: Dr. Jean Dodds protocol is now being adopted by ALL 27 North American veterinary schools. I highly recommend that you read this. Copy and save it to your files. Print it and pass it out at Dog fairs,... |
here is a chart on it.
http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/12/2008 10:13:11 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 781
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Just so everyone knows, the Parvo specific vaccine that many breeders use at 5 weeks, is Neopar.
It is an extremely high titer Parvo vaccine that DOES surpass the mothers antibodies and I have NEVER heard of a puppy that received even ONE vaccine of Neopar that went on to develop Parvo.
If a breeder has battled Parvo before, that is what they tend to use, to make sure it doesn't happen again. I think it is very successful in fending off the virus and I know I am not the only one.
To OP, your only shot of not just accepting the breeders word is to ask to speak with her veterinarian and ask if any of her other Puppies have RECENTLY been treated or tested positive for Parvo. |
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| gbat1stop |
| Posted 4/13/2008 3:24:24 AM |
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Forum Moderator
Active: 11-21-2004
Posts: 3651
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Quote beaglebrat: Just so everyone knows, the Parvo specific vaccine that many breeders use at 5 weeks, is Neopar.
It is an extremely high titer Parvo vaccine that DOES surpass the mothers antibodies and I have NEVER... |
Although I am not a breeder, I have quite a bit of experience with raising foster litters. My personal choice of vacs would be solo-jec 7 which is what my origianl vet (now retired) recommended I use. This has been no fail for me and as long as it provides the protection needed I will continue to use it.
As for the age vaccinations should be started, IMHO, it depends on when the Puppies are weaned. I feel that vaccs should be started 2 weeks after being weaned with the next set 2-3 weeks later. My experience is mostly with labs and they are weaned by 3-4 weeks with vaccs starting at 5-6 weeks, second set at 8 weeks and the third at 10 weeks at which point the are leaving for their new homes. Never had a puppy come down with parvo.
To the OP, BB made a suggestion about the brreders vet. This was good advice but, I am willing to bet that this breeder did NOT provide proper vetrinary care. Nor did he/she bother to get names of the new owners vets when the other pups left her care. Without knowing where the littermates went and finding out from the new owners about the health of their pups, you will probably never know the truth about your pup. Believe me, the breeder will NEVER admit that she sold you an unhealthy pup whether she was aware or not.
I hate to discourage you from trying to prove this breeder is/was at fault and trying to recover some or all expenses but right now, you need to focus on getting this puppy well and chalk it up to a lesson well learned. I wish you all the luck in the world and please keep us updated on your Puppies condition.
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| Bumbles86 |
| Posted 4/13/2008 4:53:44 AM |
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Active: 04-13-2008
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Its amazing how fast Parvo can affect your Dog and how quickly it takes them.
My Dog Benson was fine then I got up one day he was really ill I took him to the vet and he was put on meds but two days later it was to much for him and he had to be put to sleep it was very upsetting for my two year old who is still asking for her puppy. its not cheap to keep a Dog but its worth it. |
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| echo50 |
| Posted 4/13/2008 2:12:55 PM |
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Active: 04-11-2008
Posts: 9
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I was the first to take a puppy home from the litter. She still has the other two litter mates. Her web site is still showing they are for sale. Yesterday we went to see the puppy. He looked better than the day before. He sat up and was wagging his tail at us. They were going to try and give him food today. Because it is Sunday we can't go see him but we should get a call sometime today letting us know how he is doing. They said he still could get worse before he gets better. The thing that gets me the most is she never even asked how the puppy was doing. |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 4/14/2008 7:03:30 AM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3012
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im still really tired from this weekend, but wanted to throw my two cents in.
First, order parvaid, it will increase the Puppies chances of survival greatly, and most vets do not mind using it in addition because its nothing that can hurt the puppy and can produce results in a matter of hours.
for the record Im not for any vaccinations at all.
It is entirely possible for one Dog out of a litter to get parvo and not the rest, this pups immune system may have not been able to fight the virus as well as the others, the others could still be on breast milk also.
The vaccine itself can break down a pups immune system instead of building it up causing the virus. THe "new" strand nothing but mother natural can protect the pup.
The people I know do start at 8 weeks and thats when I started mine. I feel as though you may have picked a bad breeder since shes on the defence and not trying to help, letting a pup go less than 8 weeks just goes to show she cared little about the Puppies health and her reputation and more about the money, Im sorry that you got into this mess, If you would like me to look at the health contract if you do not fully understand it you can email me a copy at kabukienot@yahoo.com.
Get that parvaid into the pup! you can google the name to find the product, some holistic health food stores will have it also |
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| echo50 |
| Posted 4/15/2008 6:53:56 PM |
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Active: 04-11-2008
Posts: 9
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Today he has kept food down so I think we are moving in the right direction. He looked much better when we went to see him. The vet is very optamistic at this point. He said we are not out of the woods yet but we can see past the trees. The breeder still refuses to believe that he got parvo at her kennel. My vet thinks that is the only place he could have gotten it given the time frame. I am tired of dealing with her. I am jusst glad the puppy seems to be getting better. |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 4/15/2008 7:05:43 PM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 818
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Just a thought...you may want to consider taking her to small claims court. If your vet will give a statement saying he feels it came from the breeder and your story can convince the judge, you may have a leg to stand on...it would be helpful to know how your contract reads. Of course the burden would be on you to prove your case. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/15/2008 8:52:12 PM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 346
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 depending on the state of which you live will be the decising factor in responsibility. some states have a mandatory law which states that a puppy cannot be sold until it is 8 weeks of age and a health certificate is mandatory. the breeder or seller is responsible for the first 14 days against any and all illnesses. check the law in your state. you can discuss this with your vet or you can check with your local animal services. the protocol which is being spoken of may be fine, however a neopar vaccine at 5 weeks of age and a high titer 5 way at 8 weeks will prevent parvo...it is tried, tested , and proven. good luck and i will keep my fingers crossed. ps. did you see your veterinarian do a parvo test in the office?? sometimes they assume other ailments are parvo virus. if you find that there is no law in your state regulating the selling of Puppies. i would demand this breeder give you your money back, since there is absolutely no way to know exactly what the true incubation period is, i would think that she is half if not more responsible than you are. had she done the proper vaccines, this would not be happening. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/16/2008 12:15:12 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 346
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perfectpom is right on target. i would think that your vet would agree that there is at least a 50/50 chance if not more that your puppy had already been exposed to parvo before you took possession. what vaccines if any has your puppy had and what sort of documentation do you have on this?? did you get a contract?? health guarantee?? ask your breeder who got the other Puppies and who her vet is and then do some investigating on your own. chances are that the other Puppies are sick too or soon will be. this is not always true but i would say usually true. ask her to prove to you that all the other Puppies are fine and that her vet has no knowledge of this.i think with the proper documentation from your vet, knowledge of the law, and some investigations of your own, you will win the favor of the judge in small claims court. judges look down on breeders who sell live pets and then slam the door in your face when something goes wrong, especially so soon. best of luck to you.
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| echo50 |
| Posted 4/16/2008 6:23:40 AM |
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Active: 04-11-2008
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The vet did do the parvo test when I was there. As for the breeder she will not refund my money. The health guarantee was for 72 hours. He did get a parvo shot at 6 1/2 weeks. I am assuming by her because I received from her a record of the shot and a sticker from the vile I guess showing the name of the vaccine. As far as her vet goes what a joke. I asked for something showing that the puppy had been checked out by a vet and also that the other Puppies in the litter were not sick. I get a hand written note on a receipt (the kind of receipet you used to get in the old days before computers) saying he checked the puppy I got and he was in good health. Also checked the male sibling on 4/14/08 and he was also in good health and it was signed by the vet. I did check out the vet to make sure he was licensed by the state and he is. ( got it in 1958). We have no lemon law im my state. They are trying to pass one this year. |
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