| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/31/2008 11:31:46 AM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3012
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At this time I'm not sure what I am, let me explain.
For the past 3 years all I wanted to do is get into the world of show Danes, I wanted to be able to earn the right to be called a rb one day, oddly enough I care nothing for breeding Danes really its more work than I would want to do more than once or twice in a life time.
Most of you well know that I have a fawn here that I have been attempting to show, the person who owns her is suposed to be helping but has left me out to dry, shes having a hard time in life and I have went out of my way to help her one because I like her and two I have allot to learn from her if she would teach me. Shes entrusted me with this Dog which i felt was an honnor.
Im paying for the shows and expences, feeding her a special raw diet (heck of allot better than what my own dogs get)
At first it was a thing to where she couldnt afford a handler and I was just to do the best I could, and now allot of pressure has been placed on me to finish this Dog but not help guiding me in my handling, she says she showed me once and thats all she should have too.
I may or may not get a puppy out of this its been back and forth.
Im at the cross road to weather or not I should continue or invest my money in buying a puppy of my own to show. I guess what upsets me most is that she wont help me and belittles me when I ask or say im uncertain. |
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| boswer |
| Posted 3/31/2008 1:52:51 PM |
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Active: 03-12-2007
Posts: 726
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There are two sides to every story. We are only hearing one side. Maybe your friend can share her side on the formum and only then it would be fair to answer whether your stupid or not.
Boswer |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/31/2008 1:59:24 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3012
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Let me break it down in a mini version.
Im spending allot of money to show and care for a Dog that does not belong to me. I was suposed to get guidance from her but havent yet Im expected to win. Granted the act of handling a Dog isnt terribly complicated but when you cant see what your doing and try and mimic others its easier said than done.
the basic question is is this fair or am i being taken advantage of just trying to achive a dream. |
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| panthercreek |
| Posted 3/31/2008 2:45:54 PM |
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Active: 12-28-2007
Posts: 11
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I'm not sure if I am getting this right. You are showing the Dog but you may not recieve anything for it? So I am guessing that after she is finished in the ring you will be giving her back to the breeder. From what you have told us it sounds like you are being used, it sounds like she is using you as a free handler. Yes, you will be getting lots of very useful information but if she isn't helping you are you really learing anything? I feel bad for you, you are kind of stuck in a bad place. And now on top of all that I am sure you are somewhat attached to the dog, it would be almost impossible not to be. None of us can tell you what to do, you are going to have to do what you feel is best. Getting into the show world can be tough because some people are less then nice but there are really nice people out there that I'm sure would be more then willing to help you. Maybe you could find a handler in your area that would help you. |
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| ShoobyTheDog |
| Posted 3/31/2008 4:04:54 PM |
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Active: 02-13-2008
Posts: 143
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Well I am sorry to say,but how should I put this...you are KIND OFstupid.Sorry |
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| littlemissmom_23 |
| Posted 3/31/2008 4:18:32 PM |
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Active: 02-11-2008
Posts: 86
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Based on what you have told us, this really does not seem fair to you. You are putting so much effort in and in the end where does this leave you. I know absolutely nothing about shows but I think if its a possibility, you should invest in your own puppy. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 3/31/2008 5:47:13 PM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 346
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edited M
now on to the issue here...dane...did you offer to handle this dog?? or were you asked to do so?? either way...arangements should have been made before hand for the owner to cover all expenses involved...and it still can be brought up now....professional handlers make money....are you doing this for the experience too?? even so...the owner should be responsible for all of the expenses and if she were to refuse to handle them...i would probably return the Dog to her and let her know why....you really need to draw up a contract with her immediately...if it is a puppy you want in return...this is what you need to put in the contract...do not wait and leave yourself open as if you dont have something in writing...signed..you just might find that you are being used.... |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/31/2008 7:21:47 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3012
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its not really the money, i was willing to handle the Dog to get experience and shes fell on hard times so I have paid for everything, once again not as much as a big deal, it cost more in fuel to go that the entry fee.
This is something that awed me to get a chance like this and Im still greatfull however shes not helping me on the side like she promised, expecting me to finish this un pointed Dog in 12 shows and the handling classes start after three of the shows, when I say something she tells me she showed me once and thats all she should have too, well Im good but not good enough to be able to watch what im doing while doing it to know if im doing it right. It went from ok i cant afford anyone else to handle the Dog and you can use her to learn to being expected to act like a pro handler.
I am not getting anything but the experience out of this and Ive been on the fence as to if Im being stupid as I have many times before, or if Im lucky hence the title of the thread.
I want to get into showing, I really dont give a rats hinney if i ever breed another litter, but it is fun but it also scares the living crap out of me because heres little old fat me in a big sea of older fish.
I was kinda rather hoping the thread wouldnt be aproved as I was more upset and venting than anything, She had been helping these people that are druggies, instead of helping me help her and it upset me because I am under allot of stress and have done every thing I can to help her get back on her feet.
I have begged every handler/show Dog owner I can find within a 100 miles to spend a couple hours with me and no one has time or wants to help out the compition, I have 2 specialty shows before the handling classes start.
The Dog is a Dane, its almost impossible not to fall in love with them and I am very attached to the Dog and she is to me.
weather Im being misused Im going to do this, I wouldnt even mind showing another Dog or two later on with out charge as long as they paid for the other things. |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 3/31/2008 9:48:24 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3311
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mogie, perhaps you should read the subject line. ND asked if she was stupid & who died & made you sheriff anyway?
there are moderators here that will take care of problems & last I looked, you weren't one of them.
ND you know this "breeder" is not ethical or reputable or she would NEVER send a Dog out with someone who is totally inexperienced.
you need to take all the handling classes before you show the dog.
you can't find a breeder to help you because they know the breeder & her lines & don't want anything to do with it.
edited M |
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| arachyd |
| Posted 3/31/2008 10:17:22 PM |
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Active: 05-09-2007
Posts: 178
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I don't show but it sounds like you really want to be in the ring. If that is true you should stick with it, not because she wants you to finish her Dog but because you want to do it. If you do it for someone else and that person is letting you down in some way (guidance, finances, etc.) you will not enjoy the experience. If you do it because you love the dogs and love the whole atmosphere and world of Dog shows then ignore the pressure she is putting on you and do it for yourself. You've probably watched hundreds of Dog shows by now and know all the things to do. Do it with your own style even if you think you don't have one. Just be yourself and have a great time. Few people are in it for the money anyway. Later on you'll be able to draw on your experiences and may be able to say, "I showed such-and-such to her championship title the first year I started handling" and you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you did it practically on your own. |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/31/2008 10:36:56 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3012
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Quote suebgone: mogie, perhaps you should read the subject line. ND asked if she was stupid & who died & made you sheriff anyway?
there are moderators here that will take care of problems & last I looked, you weren't... |
If she could afford a pro handler I believe I would be dust in the wind, however for her right now thats no where near a possibility. I really over reacted but its because Im under so much pressure and Im very nervous about the whole thing and shes not helping.
The next show is the 2nd weekend of april, 200 miles away and I will be by myself, not even my husband can come and I dont know much about the way things work, and I really hate having to just cross my fingers and hope I dont screw up some how. Guess this is a hazing of sorts and Ill just have to buck up and getter done and at least I can say I did my best, in the meantime just hope that I can find some one to give me a hand, or a set of eyes rather.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd61/deskidsncritters/100_0715.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd61/deskidsncritters/100_0709.jpg
The Dog herself has came along way since I have gotten her, her tail was firmly tucked under at all times and now she will wag it and doesnt try to run between my legs. |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/31/2008 10:39:27 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 781
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My advice is kind of like others have said. You needed to have a clear WRITTEN agreement of what was expected of you and what you expected of her.
Bottom line, get that, make the deal fair and honest for BOTH parties, or CUT YOUR LOSSES and buy your own puppy and finish the Dog for yourself, not someone who does not value what you are doing for them.
I have a similar situation going on between two friends and one is clearly taking advantage of the other. As in one friend caring for someone elses Puppies. because the other friend was ill, but now the once sick friend is not even reimbursing the friend for food or necessary vet bills when she has sold and made money on the Puppies the other friend was caring for free.
Some people will take advantage when you let them. I have learned this the hard way my self, now I am pretty clear with my agreements--even with friends (after many times of getting the shaft). |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 3/31/2008 10:44:07 PM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
Posts: 399
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Serious question -- What kind of success has this breeder actually had? How many champions have they produced in how many litters/how many Puppies. |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/31/2008 10:47:34 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3012
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5 champions, 4 litters in 10 years |
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| kathystone |
| Posted 4/1/2008 2:26:13 AM |
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Active: 11-18-2007
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ND, don't be too hard on yourself and don't let the nay sayers in this forum get to you. Life is full of experiences and we learn form thjem every time... hopefully ot having to repeat the bad ones too often.
In 1971 I got my firast purebred dog. I had grown up on the Terhune collie books and wanted to be in the show ring. The Dog didn't have papers , a mere formality I was not aware you needed them(stupid?), and went on to get his degrees in obedience. I joined the breed club and met alot of people. One of them offered me a Beagle for free. All I had to do was show her and get her championship and let him have a puppy back. Sounded good.
I took handling classes and went to my first show. I was so nervous! The judge was a saint! She showed me how to stack the Dog on the table, how to hold the leash( I had gotten tangled up doing the triangle and fell down) and allowed me to do the pattern one more time. I ended up getting best of opposite sex, not because of my handling skill but because this was a great dog! I finished her in 3 shows. That made me abit cocky!
I had a friend who was raising Akitas and I started to show them also. I did not do well. I learned about the politics of the show world during the 3 years I tried to title my dogs.I watched a Dog who was a st. bernard cross win at the hands of a professional handler.And it made me bitter enough to quit the world of show dogs.( That is one reason AKC startede to require dna tests!)
You can finish your Dog if you want to. If you enhjoy it and are doing well, go for it. Expossure is a good thing. You may even want to see if you can apprentis under a pro handler. I was lucky. My mentor was Danny Canino. A top handler can show you some tricks that make your Dog stand out and win. Good luck! |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/1/2008 7:39:02 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 346
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 no one died and left me sheriff...and i dont want the job...i think you already have that position...i was simply voicing my opinion...who died and told you the breeder that dane was working with was not ethicl...i guess that would be up to dane to decide and it sounds like she is trying to figure the ethics in this matter about now.
i based my opinion of the "stupid poster" on several of the other posts he/she has made.
edited maoseger |
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| moggie |
| Posted 4/1/2008 7:50:21 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 346
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 well wasnt that rude of me...let me explain...never in my life have i ever been in a chat room...never thought i would ever be...its getting stupid to the point of quitting...i have almost become addicted to it and everything is starting to get done slower because of it...my husband keeps walking by me giving me funny looks...i am certainly NOT an experienced chatter...dont know tha lingo..dont know the rules...dont care...what i do know...is a lot about dogs and horses...and some of the things i read are ridiculous...and some of the posters are rude...nasty...downright hateful...which...i find stupid....i would have thought this site was for breeders to share their knowledge and help each other out with what they knew...instead...it turns out that every tom dick and harry are on here asking stupid questions which can clearly be researched on the net and i think a lot of it is simply to jerk chains around...so...here you have it....do people have to pay to enter this forum?? or is it a free for all?? if so...then why can there not be a chat for registered users only???? : |
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| maligirl1 |
| Posted 4/1/2008 8:14:39 AM |
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Active: 12-14-2007
Posts: 309
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i guess both in a sense.lucky if she is willing to give you the chance to get the experience(build up your rep as a handler,never know where it could lead) if that's what you want.MAYBE stupid if you keep doing it even after she does get back on her feet and asks you to keep doing it.but if you really,really want to do this,only you can be the true judge.good luck |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 4/1/2008 9:33:10 AM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6601
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| Quote moggie: well wasnt that rude of me...let me explain...never in my life have i ever been in a chat room...never thought i would ever be...its getting stupid to the point of quitting...i have almost... |
This isn't a chat room this is a message forum and yes its free to all. Learning the rules isn't hard all you have to do it read them. Yes you will get people of all opinions and from all walks of life. It is often from people we disagree with that we learn the most.
Sometimes people come across rude or upset because they believe strongly about this or that. Take it with a grain of salt. This world is a rude place and I'm always amazed that people spend time on the World Wide Web and think it will not be a reflection of the world. But that just me.
I like to say, you can be part of the problem or part of the solution the choice is yours. |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 4/1/2008 11:31:51 AM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 781
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| Quote moggie: well wasnt that rude of me...let me explain...never in my life have i ever been in a chat room...never thought i would ever be...its getting stupid to the point of quitting...i have almost... |
Well, I hope you don't leave. I was unfortunately introduced to 'forums' a few years ago and have spent ENTIRELY too much time arguing points and contradicting bad information.
The only thing that compels me to continue to post is if there are NO OPINIONS from REAL Dog BREEDERS on these forums, then the only OPINIONS people will have are from the large lump of 'non-breeders' who are either pet owners, show people or rescue people, who have standards WAY outside the realm of real Dog breeding.
People coming on this site to purchase Puppies will think these opinions of 'standards' are what is normal, and then a whole lot of breeders will be screwed on some level or another-- be it for mixing, not getting this test or that test done, letting their puppy go before 14 weeks---
Basically more breeders need to be on here, not less, because so many people do look at this site every day.
I wish that there were more AVERAGE DECENT (not either extreme super-show, or puppymills) BREEDERS to just answer these questions and clarify what is good information from bad. |
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