| maligirl1 |
| Posted 3/24/2008 2:50:08 PM |
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Active: 12-14-2007
Posts: 307
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my friend has recently gotten a 9mo jack russell puppy.kind of a rescue/dropped on her doorstep thing.i have alwazys been told to feed dogs puppy food until they reach maturity(i think smaller dogs mature quicker than larger dogs-may be wron though).she has always been told at about 9-10 months you can start switching over.i tried getting her to go to a raw diet but she's kind of leary of that at this young age.she wants to do the right thing by this pup.any advice would be a great help |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/24/2008 5:17:58 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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Your friend is more than welcome to email me if she would like to talk raw, kabukienot@yahoo.com
At 9 months a small breed is normally mature enough to be on a adult food and unless the Dog has a very sensitive stomach you can usually make the switch in 3-4 days. 1/4 new, 1/2 new 3/4 new the all new |
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| boswer |
| Posted 3/24/2008 6:51:39 PM |
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Active: 03-12-2007
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| Quote maligirl1: my friend has recently gotten a 9mo jack russell puppy.kind of a rescue/dropped on her doorstep thing.i have alwazys been told to feed dogs puppy food until they reach maturity(i think smaller dogs mature... |
If your friend is interested in going raw there are many good commercial raw diets that have been developed by qualified nutritionists none of which I think are on this forum. A Jack Russell puppy is a smaller breed and it would not be cost prohibitive to feed a raw diet that is sold at holistic pet shops.
Boswer |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/24/2008 7:41:06 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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| Quote boswer: If your friend is interested in going raw there are many good commercial raw diets that have been developed by qualified nutritionists none of which I think are on this forum. A Jack Russell puppy is... |
Well now, are we not showing our ugly side or what, just because I don't like your food because it has things dogs do not need in their diets, and I think its foolish to spend that amount of money does not give you the right to demean my education on raw feeding and the information is all based on facts, not things to make a consumer feel better about themselves.
All the additives and vitamins you insisted you give your Dog only to have it wind up with pano, you didnt listen to me then and you will never will, maybe if you where not so hard headed and willing to learn maybe you would understand raw feeding a bit better. Its funny how those that are unable to understand information and do research on their own are the first ones to look to the paid scientist, gee, I wonder how many things they have been wrong about, calling the common people idiots only to now look at things we have said for years, but hey to each his own and Im done with it and would have not said anything else about the overpriced crap you feed, but you have no right to judge any one else's knowledge when it is based on facts from nature. |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 3/24/2008 9:25:12 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
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excellent post ND |
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| staceystange |
| Posted 3/24/2008 10:41:21 PM |
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Active: 03-13-2008
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Nat,
I think your ideas are great and I am looking into switching Sparks to RAW as soon as he gets older! Thanks for ALL your great advice
Stacey |
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| PerfectPom |
| Posted 3/25/2008 12:10:34 AM |
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Active: 04-04-2007
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| Quote boswer: If your friend is interested in going raw there are many good commercial raw diets that have been developed by qualified nutritionists none of which I think are on this forum. A Jack Russell puppy is... |
I don't get it Bowser, I don't recall ND getting snipey with you lately, if I recall it at all. You were rude enough to insult her Dog for no reason and then when she called you on it to get more clarification you never even had the balls to respond back and now this. Consider the source. |
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| maligirl1 |
| Posted 3/25/2008 7:44:39 AM |
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Active: 12-14-2007
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thanks everyone for your responses.i will pass everything along to my friend.right now she is feeding her pup kind of a combo of newmans own/royal canin.he seems to doing well.but i am still talking to her about switching to raw.my pup is doing very well although still not completely raw but almost.nd, i will give her your email and she can get in touch with you if she wants.thanks again everyone |
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| boswer |
| Posted 3/25/2008 4:56:29 PM |
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Active: 03-12-2007
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| Quote naturaldane: Well now, are we not showing our ugly side or what, just because I don't like your food because it has things dogs do not need in their diets, and I think its foolish to spend that amount of money does... |
What is your definition of ugly? Is it that I made a blanket statement and said there are no nutritionist on this forum or have you recently become one. In that case please accept my apology. Is that or is that not the truth. Aren't we taking this personal and being on the defensive. What makes you think I was speaking of you? If you cannot afford to buy commercial don't critize people who can. There are loads of good ideas on raw feeding and not everyone thinks your way is the only way to raw feed. Pano can be had on a raw diet also and not just kibble. If I remember right you were the one to challenge the the Natures Variety raw diet when I mentioned that is what I feed because it contains fruit therefore dogs don't need fruit because fruit has sugar. I say bull with your particular standards. For an individual to critize a raw food company that has far more education than you will ever have on nutrition leads one to wonder what makes you such an expert more so than PHD, Vets, Nutritionist that spend tens of thousands making these raw formulas?
I am sure for those out there on this forum that don't know better you may convince them to feed your way but I am here to tell you thats not necessarily the best way.
Boswer |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/25/2008 6:06:33 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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Oh bowser you are quite entertaining and so I shall feed you.
I know of a few vets that have spent as much time as I have researching Dog nutritional needs, those that have I have been a willing student to them, and guess what, we all feed the same way. I also have been educated by breeders that have been feeding raw for 30 years or better, before it became heard of. These people also have the foundation bloodlines for the best Danes in the country. I have poured my heart and soul into the research I have done for over 3 years now, and I come up with the same basic results time and time again. So, do I have a degree, no, if there was one to be had UGA is 10 minutes from my house and I would have no problem getting on if there was such a thing. Do I have advanced knowledge of k-9 nutritional needs, damn skimpy I do. What makes me think you where talking to me, well gee I believe that would just be a bit of common bit of DUH!
Oh, and as far as the comment that I could not afford the Natures Variety I still have my pet store name, and wholesale ID, meaning I can buy it at the stores cost, not paying the 75% markup on the food, so you really have no point to be made there I just don't believe its a proper food for a Dog and does contain many things known to be toxic to dogs. I don't need a price tag to make myself feel better about what i feed my dogs. I may say I found a deal on something but you know what, I may be cheap and thrifty but that doesnt mean Im poor or theres no way my dogs could eat raw considering 3 out of the 6 are Great Danes.
Dog food companies have two goals, sell their product and make as much money off of it as possible. The only reason half that stuff is in there is to make uneducated consumers feel better about buying their product. pets have been humanized so its only natural for us to think that they need the same foods as we do, but given the even basics of our teeth are not the same as theirs should give somebody a clue as they are carnivores not omnivores, but gee wiz i guess some marketing personal that are trying to make the most money possible just cant understand that. |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/25/2008 6:12:20 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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Myth: dogs ARE OMNIVORES.
This is false. dogs are carnivores, not omnivores. dogs ARE very adaptable, but just because they can survive on an omnivorous diet does not mean it is the best diet for them. The assumption that dogs are natural omnivores remains to be proven, whereas the truth about dogs being natural carnivores is very well-supported by the evidence available to us.
1.) Dentition
Look into your Dog or cat's mouth. Those huge impressive teeth (or tiny needle sharp teeth) are designed for grabbing, ripping, tearing, shredding, and shearing meat (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 258.). They are not equipped with large flat molars for grinding up plant matter. Their molars are pointed and situated in a scissors bite (along with the rest of their teeth) that powerfully disposes of meat, bone, and hide. Carnivores are equipped with a peculiar set of teeth that includes the presence of carnassial teeth: the fourth upper premolar and first lower molar.
Contrast this with your own teeth or the teeth of a black bear. A black bear is a true omnivore, as are we. We have nice, large, flat molars that can grind up veggies. Black bears, while having impressive canine teeth, also have large flat molars in the back of their mouth to assist in grinding up plant matter. dogs and most canids lack these kinds of molars. Why? Because they don't eat plant matter. Teeth are highly specialized and are structured specifically for the diet the animal eats, and the difference between a bear's teeth and a dog's teeth (both species are in Order Carnivora) demonstrates how this can be (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pgs 260.). To see a visual comparison of the teeth of a Dog to the teeth of a black bear, please click here. One can logically ask: If a Dog (or cat or ferret) has the dentition of a carnivorous animal, why do we feed it pelleted, grain-based food?
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/25/2008 6:14:19 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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3.) Internal anatomy and physiology
Dogs and cats have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals. This explains why plant matter comes out the same way it came in; there was no time for it to be broken down and digested (among other things). People know this; this is why they tell you that vegetables and grains have to be preprocessed for your Dog to get anything out of them. But even then, feeding vegetables and grains to a carnivorous animal is a questionable practice.
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/25/2008 6:14:38 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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Dogs do not normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the break-down of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. Thus, feeding dogs as though they were omnivores taxes the pancreas and places extra strain on it, as it must work harder for the Dog to digest the starchy, carbohydrate-filled food instead of just producing normal amounts of the enzymes needed to digest proteins and fats (which, when fed raw, begin to "self-digest" when the cells are crushed through chewing and tearing and their enzymes are released).
Nor do dogs have the kinds of friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant mattereven preprocessed plant matterare unavailable to dogs. This is why Dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic vitamins and minerals (the fact that cooking destroys all the vitamins and minerals and thus creates the need for supplementation aside) to their Dog foods. If a Dog can only digest 40-60% of its grain-based food, then it will only be receiving 40-60% (ideally!) of the vitamins and minerals it needs. To compensate for this, the manufacturer must add a higher concentration of vitamins and minerals than the Dog actually needs. |
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| boswer |
| Posted 3/25/2008 7:07:37 PM |
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Active: 03-12-2007
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Quote naturaldane: Oh bowser you are quite entertaining and so I shall feed you.
I know of a few vets that have spent as much time as I have researching Dog nutritional needs, those that have I have been a willing student... |
Let me enlighten you that education involves knowing more than a few Vets and researching dogs nutritional needs. Plus I thought you left being a Moderator because you didn't have the time. Obviously you have more time on your hands than you know what to do with.
Boswer |
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| naturaldane |
| Posted 3/25/2008 7:23:59 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3012
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entertaining people like yourself keep me around. This is the last few days before show season kicks off (sunday) then I wont have much time, but thought that since I could not devote myself all the time that it wouldnt be right to hold a job that I could not do all the time, its called integrity.
I see you dont have much to say against the facts, didnt think you would.
edited maoseger1010 |
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