| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 3/26/2008 9:55:58 PM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6601
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Quote beaglebrat: So, bottom line, in the small breeds, no one is health testing, so please don't single out the people mixing like it is a sin.
Most of the small breeds have been bred for size and looks in the show... |
"Bottom line, in the small breeds, no one is health testing"
I'm sorry, but that is simply not true. Of course there are many breeders who are not testing but I know of a lot of breeders of Shih tzu's and Llasa Opsos who are doing testing. They are working hard to wipe out the kidney problems in the breed as well as eye and hip problems. |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/26/2008 10:08:44 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 781
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Quote maoseger1010: "Bottom line, in the small breeds, no one is health testing"
I'm sorry, but that is simply not true. Of course there are many breeders who are not testing but I know of a lot of breeders of Shih tzu's... |
If you look directly at the OFA statistics, it is ENTIRE BREEDS not being tested, not certain breeders.
I mean havluv mentioned people breeding Havanese and Maltese being bad, yet NO ONE tests Maltese, so why should mixed breeders be held at a higher standard? |
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| nysirk21 |
| Posted 3/26/2008 11:07:51 PM |
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Active: 01-30-2008
Posts: 46
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| Quote jcmaddock10: Okay personally I think that show dogs have it worse off than any other dog. They aren't allowed to just be a dog. We were at the vet the other day and our vet was saying how their is another couple that... |
Dog shows are not just about "LOOKS" there are so many activity shows that dogs LOVE like Fly ball, Agility, weight pull the dogs really enjoy that stuff and its great exercise not all shows are about conformation, so maybe you should do some more research before you judge, plus many showdog owners take the BEST care of there dogs ensuring all there exercise and health needs are taken care of |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 3/26/2008 11:33:36 PM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
Posts: 399
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"they WILL be better than if the bitch owner goes to the next door neighbors purebred that has no Champions in the pedigree."
There is no guarantee of that, especially when the bitch comes from a long history of unknowns which is usually the case in these situations. The owner has no idea what the ancestors looked like, what their temperaments were like, what their health was like, what faults or strengths they had, etc. They just want Puppies with little to no thought.
Often, these females are so bad that it probably doesn't matter who they breed to. After all, it's a penis, not a magic wand. The quality Dog can't "make it all better". Even if they kept the best of a bad lot, it's still not good.
"Honestly, how many litters have you ever had?"
I've had 8 litters / 31 Puppies in the past 11 years and I'm not sure why you mention the breeder programs but I receive the breeder benefits from Canidae and Pro Plan, fwiw.
Looking at my 31 Puppies. I'm going to subtract the last litter of 9 since they are only 6 months old. Out of the 22 Puppies. I've produced 7 champions, another 4 were pointed before being altered, 3 have been Best Puppy in Group winners (1 Best Puppy in Show), 7 CDs, 6 TTs, 9 CGCs, 3 ROMs, but one of the things I'm most proud of is that 16 of the 22 have been involved in Doberman cardiac research, 4 were also involved in CVI research, 7 were involved in vWD research - all in an effort to help the breed.
I studied and lived with and trained my breed for 15 years before I ever bred a litter. I'm active with rescue, I'm active in my breed clubs, I ring steward, I show, I train in obedience and agility and I continue to be a student of my breed.
It's not "righteous" to be choosy about what dogs get bred. We have a serious problem in north America with millions of dogs being euthanized annually. If the "responsible" breeders won't breed responsibly and ethically, how can we ever hope to educate and change what the irresponsible and uneducated breeders are doing?
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| Mdoggy |
| Posted 3/27/2008 6:12:26 AM |
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Active: 03-19-2008
Posts: 14
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Amen to Maryanddobes.
Beaglebrat, Maltese are very much tested. You need to do your homework as there are many tests being done on that breed to insure a healthy line.
Again, breeding mutts is where you get the mess of problems. Just breeding without being responsible to each breeds problems and the betterment of that breed is just not right.
I am not picking on you, but on what results from this mismatch of " I'm going to breed a cute combination of whatever".
Noone will win with you as you are going to do what you want without a concern for what you are "making" and the respect for the dogs that come from that mismatch.  |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/27/2008 8:34:33 AM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
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Quote Mdoggy: Amen to Maryanddobes.
Beaglebrat, Maltese are very much tested. You need to do your homework as there are many tests being done on that breed to insure a healthy line.
Again, breeding mutts is where... |
Oh really? What are some OFA numbers for Maltese then? Since you know so much. Prove that they are being tested.
Really small breeds probably don't need to be tested for hips, but What about Patella? Why are there only 86 Patella tests EVER SUBMITTED TO OFA?
If they aren't allowing OFA to look at the Patella x-rays, then who is rating them? Is their vet as unbiased, and honest as the independent vets at OFA?
I love how people just GLOSS OVER FACTS.
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/27/2008 8:38:39 AM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 781
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Quote Mdoggy: Amen to Maryanddobes.
Beaglebrat, Maltese are very much tested. You need to do your homework as there are many tests being done on that breed to insure a healthy line.
Again, breeding mutts is where... |
As far as Puggles, you are just unknowledgable and misinformed, can you please talk about something you know? Or be quiet.
They are not a mis-match in any way. People like them for a reason. Here is an e-mail I got YESTERDAY-- and I have many others from families that are VERY VERY happy with their dogs.
Good morning! I am SO sorry it has taken this long to get you pictures of Odie (DOB 8/12/07). He is doing wonderfully- we couldn't love him more. He is very well behaved (for a puppy) and is very smart. He brings us joy every day. I actually have people fighting over him to watch for a day or night. Friends and family actually ask us to "borrow" him- he is such a great dog. Loves people, loves other dogs- never aggressive- he is truly wonderful. Thank you so much, again!
These are some pictures of he and I at his puppy kindergarten last night. Hope you can see them- his face is beautiful and perfect! I have yet to see another Puggle around here that compares!! |
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| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/27/2008 9:00:17 AM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 781
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Quote MaryAndDobes: "they WILL be better than if the bitch owner goes to the next door neighbors purebred that has no Champions in the pedigree."
There is no guarantee of that, especially when the bitch comes from a long... |
I thought you had said you had 5 litters in the last 11 years, but no matter. You are still more of a show person than a breeder.
Which there is nothing wrong with. That is YOUR CHOICE, on how you do things. Kudos- clap, clap, clap.
However, if every single person who was interested in finding a Doberman in all of America had to get a Doberman from a breeder like you--- How long would they have to wait to get a puppy?
So average families don't deserve Dobermans? Do all families NEED show dobermans in their home?
And if you allowed that modestly bred bitch to be bred with your stud, maybe not a single puppy would be ring worthy, but wouldn't they be better than their mother? Isn't that also bettering the breed? Since she WILL be bred anyway. If those Puppies were again bred with a Champion, wouldn't better confirmation start to come out?
A lot of your views are JUST OPINIONS as are MINE. The difference is, I know mine are opinions and you believe yours to be absolute fact.
We simply are not going to agree on a lot of issues. It does not make you 'right' or myself 'wrong', you just choose to do things and go about things in a different way. |
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