| jcmaddock10 |
| Posted 3/22/2008 4:23:58 AM |
 |
|
|
Active: 07-21-2007
Posts: 43
|
Okay personally I think that show dogs have it worse off than any other dog. They aren't allowed to just be a dog. We were at the vet the other day and our vet was saying how their is another couple that brings their yorkie in and his hair cannot touch the ground and all of these other things. All dogs are beautiful and wonderful, personally I will only own pure bred dogs. Don't ask me why but I just do. But I would never EVER show any of my dogs just for the reason that I want them to have a life other than being so trained that they pretty much don't have a life other than showing. I guess it's just my opinion and i'm sure everyone else has their own views on this topic, so I would like to hear them. |
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 8:19:59 AM |
|
|
|
 
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
If it wasn't for the fact it would be really hard to carry one of my dogs in the vets office I wouldn't want any of my dogs touching the floor show or not, if it can fit into a carry crate then it will go in one.
Why? Well just back to basics on Dog husbandry 101, don't allow your Dog to be exposed to who knows what.
Would you allow a child to crawl all over the ER or Dr.s office? Since there is no known vaccine to fully protect against Parvo, (which to many vaccines will actually make the immune system not function as well) and even healthy non vaccinated dogs can still get the bug but may not get the full blown version, if stressed to bad it can. Say a 6 month old puppy are so has been walked in because hes just not right, then an hour later they find out he has parvo, by that time no telling how many clients have came and went and picked up the virus on the bottom of their shoes and paws.
Hookworms and other parasites are also something that your Dog can pick up from the vets office.
As far as the show Dog comment, I don't believe that you have had enough experience around breeders, handlers and such. Granted there are some that expect their dogs to live in golden crates but many others don't.
showing involves the Dog to stand still in a stack for less than a minute most times, pretty fair trade considering all the perks. A good handler and a good owner know how important it is for the Dog to enjoy himself, and if they dont, well then your chances of winning are pretty well slim to none. Watch a Dog show, and youll see that most of the dogs really enjoy themselves and cut up some.
I really dont see how mentally thats any different than you asking your own Dog to stay, walk or trot on a lead other than a judge doesnt give you a ribbon.
Im not going to say theres not a few nut jobs in the world, but really, if it was cruel, dont you think it would fade into the wind? And to what standards would purebreds be held to? What traits would make them better at their skill if we only had mutts, you cant ask a mutt off the street to do a bloodhound or pointers job, those breeds like all others are bred with a specific purpose. |
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 8:24:13 AM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
Through showing which asses the soundness of the body and mind, hence why happy dogs win more than unhappy dogs.
Field or work trials asses the dogs skills, if the Dog can not pass either of these traits then it has no real purpose of being bred in an ideal world.
The Dane Im showing for the most part gets to live a normal dogs life and will once she is finished, certain things shes protected from but really nothing different than my other dogs. She is a spoiled pampered princess all Diva she is. |
|
|
| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 3/22/2008 9:12:47 AM |
|
|
|
Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6666
|
| Quote CannonFarms: If it wasn't for the fact it would be really hard to carry one of my dogs in the vets office I wouldn't want any of my dogs touching the floor show or not, if it can fit into a carry crate then it will... |
Oh I am so in agreement here. My dogs little feet touch nothing but the table in the vets office and only that after I've seen it cleaned.
OP... I hear what your saying but you need to go to Dog shows and meet the handlers and the show dogs, you'll find they are very happy dogs. |
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/22/2008 10:09:50 AM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
As far as the vet office, of course you don't want Puppies crawling around the floor if possible, but I think the main point was that there is a family that the dogs feet are to NEVER touch the ground.
I believe the vet. I thought I would show my yorkie until I contacted the breeder that I purchased her from (that has been raising show yorkies for about 45 years). She told me that the hair would only grow so long unless I wrapped the ends in wax paper and kept her off the floor. I was supposed to put her in a crate all of her life.
At that point, I decided it wasn't that important for me to show her. Her quality of life was more important.
If anyone things that many of those long haired breeds-- with hair that flows past their body-- have a normal life, How? How could they?
I also think that not all show/handler experiences are good ones. That is why I really don't care of my Puppies go for show or not.
If one person and 1-2 assistants are traveling all over the country with 8-16 dogs (some small breed handlers have more), you don't think those dogs are stuffed in crates for 16-20 hours a day? When they are traveling from State to State? You don't think those dogs are in their crates constantly and are just let out in x-pens to go potty? I think many are.
Short haired breeds that are shown at random shows I guess can have normal lives, but those that are being SERIOUSLY SHOWN in circuits by handlers do NOT. They are no more pets than any other kennel dog.
|
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/22/2008 10:20:36 AM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
Now we will get to Dog showing. I have always shown horses. So I know at BEST all showing is, is the opinion of ONE person for the day. Otherwise a Dog wouldn't place last in it's class one day and then take best of winners the next.
It is ONE person's interpretation of what they think the breed should look like for the day. It's an opinion. AT BEST.
At worst it is a complete waste of time and corruption.
In handler breeds (breeds that you NEED a handler to get your Dog noticed), why is it that you need to have a handler? Isn't it a Dog show, not a handler show?
No, but you need to have a face that the judge recognizes in the ring, not just a good dog. You need someone that has shown dogs for the judge, or that has purchased dogs from the judge, or maybe just paid for dinner or a fancy gift for the judge last night.
If you think that stuff never or has never happened, you would be incorrect.
I have seen horribly ugly dogs with Champion titles-- dogs I would NEVER consider breeding with, that somehow got their title. I have watched great dogs continually get reserve.
The 'all or nothing' thing in AKC is retarded. So is the point system.
If you NEED 30 dogs for a 3 point major, then reserve should count for something. Even if it's just a point.
But why do that? Then dogs might title quicker and AKC would get less money and attendance for the Dog shows.
Titling a Dog doesn't have anything to do with health or temprament either. I have known of Champions to die VERY YOUNG, I have heard of dogs going around the ring BLIND.
I KNOW of a Champion that was put down due to aggression-- but at least they kept some of his frozen sperm! Who wants his Puppies.?!!??!!
You have to keep it in perspective and see it for what it is. It IS JUST a beauty contest and it IS NOT always fair.
Most of you wouldn't want your children to have a life of pageants, and most wouldn't think that just pageant winners should be allowed to have children.
|
|
|
| PerfectPom |
| Posted 3/22/2008 12:48:36 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
|
Quote beaglebrat: As far as the vet office, of course you don't want Puppies crawling around the floor if possible, but I think the main point was that there is a family that the dogs feet are to NEVER touch the ground.
I... |
I'm by no means an expert but from going to an all yorkie board I have read a lot. Some people do have pet Yorkies whose hair grows easily to the floor that they cut down to just above floor length, not saying it may not have breaks in it but the coats look beautiful. I believe the wrapping for show dogs allows you to let them roam and not damage thier hair. There may be some show people who keep them in the crate extensively but you can't say all show Yorkies are treated that way.
Yorkies can have 3 coat types, silky which is the standard, cotton and wooly. Cotton and wooly do not grow as well and may never reach the floor.
|
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/22/2008 1:38:38 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
| Quote PerfectPom: I'm by no means an expert but from going to an all yorkie board I have read a lot. Some people do have pet Yorkies whose hair grows easily to the floor that they cut down to just above floor length, not... |
Of course you can't say 'all' of anything, because then you are generalizing and it's not true. That is why I normally say 'some'.
I imagine there are some long haired show dogs that are also papered pets.
I live on a farm though, and my dogs are allowed to run around outside on our 5 acres. Which is not all mowed and includes some lightly wooded areas.
There is no way that you could let a show yorkie of any coat to run around in an area like that. Their hair gets snagged and pulled out.
The lady I purchased my Dog from, did keep her show dogs in wire crates. I am sure not EVERY ONE does this, but I figure many do.
I am not anti-showing, I think it can be a useful tool in breeding and a fun hobby for some people. I just think you have to take it for what it is, the good and the bad. |
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 2:39:13 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
The good, bad and ugly are all a part of almost every aspect of life, especially when it comes to people.
BB i think you have had an unfair share of bad people in the buisness |
|
|
| jcmaddock10 |
| Posted 3/22/2008 4:04:54 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 07-21-2007
Posts: 43
|
| Quote CannonFarms: If it wasn't for the fact it would be really hard to carry one of my dogs in the vets office I wouldn't want any of my dogs touching the floor show or not, if it can fit into a carry crate then it will... |
Okay so from my post what makes YOU think that I haven't been around them? I have been to Dog shows and around the dogs that are being shown. So stop making accusations that you have no grounds to speak on. My uncle is also a breeder and I was around that for most of my life so again, you have no idea what kind of experience that I have. |
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 4:37:01 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
The statement you made alone doesnt sound like some one that has been in or around shows, and have talked with breeders and handlers, it sounds like some one that has been on the outside and has taken a glance in.
As far as your uncle, would i be a vet just because mine is? Just because he may do things a certain way doesnt mean that its the way it should or shouldnt be done, and if you dont like the way he treats his dogs then take it up with him, if you like the way he does things then good for the both of you.
But the statement you have made may be true for a few unlucky dogs, but for the most part you are dead wrong, and those that have gave you this opinion you should run from. |
|
|
| jcmaddock10 |
| Posted 3/22/2008 4:57:24 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 07-21-2007
Posts: 43
|
i only brought up the part about my uncle being a breeder because I was always with him and loved helping him out. I said nothing about him showing any of his animals. I have went to a Dog show and hated it. I love animals and think that showing them is just wrong. Many other people have posted all of the negatives about showing so i'm not going to go into that all again. Also, what do the dogs get out of being shown? A title that they have no idea what it means or even that they have one. |
|
|
| PerfectPom |
| Posted 3/22/2008 5:01:42 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
|
| Quote jcmaddock10: i only brought up the part about my uncle being a breeder because I was always with him and loved helping him out. I said nothing about him showing any of his animals. I have went to a Dog show and hated... |
It's supposed to prove they are a good rep of the breed and therefore can be bred. It seems like it would be a fun hobby but expensive. I could imagine enjoying it. My late dad tried it for a while but then his Dog got hip displacia. He said there was a lot of snooty people which I can believe. Watch the movie "Best in show". |
|
|
| emlee3 |
| Posted 3/22/2008 5:40:50 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 02-11-2006
Posts: 2084
|
| Quote jcmaddock10: i only brought up the part about my uncle being a breeder because I was always with him and loved helping him out. I said nothing about him showing any of his animals. I have went to a Dog show and hated... |
People are INVOLVED with their show dogs. Not many people can say they spend every waking moment with their pets. I've known people who work 8-9 hours a day and are too tired to do anything with their pets.
i'm not sure about toy breeds but with other breed such as the working breeds they do have other actitivites that they do with their dogs beside showing (i.e. agility). The owners become involve with their dogs life..train them to be the best. what do you want a Dog to do..sleep all day? run around in a circle in your backyard?
unlike beaglebrat, not everyone has a 5 acre farmland. Most live in cities. So what is your definition of a quality life for a dog?
|
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 5:42:54 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
| Quote jcmaddock10: i only brought up the part about my uncle being a breeder because I was always with him and loved helping him out. I said nothing about him showing any of his animals. I have went to a Dog show and hated... |
The Dog has no idea? Hes pleasing his handler, and sure, hes just as eager as the mutt down the street to contribute his mark in the Dog world, but hey, lets just give up and not have any standards to hold breeds too so they all become mutts since that is all thats worthy of our devotion?
Are you a member of Peta or something? There is not one Dog in this whole entire world that in its linage it was designed to work or please man in some fashion, every pure breed was created to suit some purpose, and those breeds are owned by people that enjoy that trait they have.
How else do you think we can prove our dogs worthy of being bred? Tell me because I would really like to know. Though in the real world there is a market for byb and good hobby bred Puppies. you can bet your last dollar I will not breed anything else unless its titled, I personally feel for me its unethical though I dont pass judgement on breeders such as BB, matter of fact its possible I may buy a puppy from her in the future because I do like her boxers, Im just outta room with three danes.
Heres a video of a miserable show Dane,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yOYv6xeXOW0 |
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 5:51:51 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h8u7cPWUGxA&feature=related
This was last years National,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=P-I4pDd5qrY&feature=related
You see the tails? If the Dog doesnt want to show, its tucked firmly under but most of these dogs are wagging their tails, so what does that tell you? |
|
|
| PerfectPom |
| Posted 3/22/2008 5:55:33 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 04-04-2007
Posts: 890
|
| Quote CannonFarms: The Dog has no idea? Hes pleasing his handler, and sure, hes just as eager as the mutt down the street to contribute his mark in the Dog world, but hey, lets just give up and not have any standards to... |
Not to fuel any fires *cough* but if you decide to purchase from her I hope you visit her premises personally like she invited others to do in the past. Seems hard for me to believe she keeps all her dogs in the house when she lives on that big of a farm...I'm just not buying it. |
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 6:02:10 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
| Quote PerfectPom: Not to fuel any fires *cough* but if you decide to purchase from her I hope you visit her premises personally like she invited others to do in the past. Seems hard for me to believe she keeps all her... |
If I buy from her it will be between her and I and like I said, personally I like her boxers, if she does or doesnt keep them all inside thats her biz, Im buying a puppy so thats not much of a concern.
I cant speak for the rest of her dogs but she does have some great Boxers and I believe shes good for her word. I have no plans to drive 1300 miles if I do, but until this old Dane of mine dies, Im not bringing anything else in the house. |
|
|
| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/22/2008 7:11:31 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
|
| Quote PerfectPom: Not to fuel any fires *cough* but if you decide to purchase from her I hope you visit her premises personally like she invited others to do in the past. Seems hard for me to believe she keeps all her... |
Lol, please do. You will find one Dog house on our property, which is for when we leave the dogs outside in our 2 acre fenced field to play in in the summer.
Are all the dogs in the house loose at all times? No way, I have too many dogs. There are always 5-6 in our house running around at one time. For the others we have a walk-out basement that most of the dogs are crated in when they are inside. The basement goes out to either (2) 12x12 runs, (4) 6x12 runs and the large fenced field.
I wish our dogs could all go out in the large field all the time, unfortunately I have the beagles that would get hurt by playing boxers, so they have to be out in the big field by themselves.
I also have several alpha boxers that would hurt other Boxers if running in a large pack together unsupervised, so they don't get to play out in the field all the time. They are also in runs until they can be by themselves in the field.
My Puppies are upstairs in my kitchen. That is where they are born, and that is where they stay until they go to their new homes. I can take a picture right now of my kitchen, right now I have 2 Puggle litters in them.
I have nothing to hide, I think I have made it clear I am what I say I am, I do what I say I do.
I have one 9 week old Boxer puppy left from the last litter that is going to Puerto Rico in early April. That puppy is also in our kitchen and it is 100% crate trained already. My Puppies often are 100% crate trained with in a few weeks of going home, because of how I start them going outside at 5-6 weeks.
NaturalDane has my e-mail I am willing to take the pic right now, or she is willing to drive on out.
If you go on my website you will see the many references from people who many HAVE driven out and picked up their Puppies. Some coming from the east coast, Penn, Louisiana, one this winter drove from Nebraska. I have people out many weekends a year from Chicago and Detroit.
Look on my website. I say families are welcome--and they are. Just call first, because we might not be home, and when we aren't home, the dogs are all in the house, and you aren't going to see much.
I have many friends that raise perfectly fine dogs in kennels. That's just not how I choose to do things. I and BECAUSE I SACRIFICE MY HOUSE (no kitchen table in the last 3 years, we eat on a table in the living room) it is pretty insulting.
Pom you can come on out too if you want. |
|
|
| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/22/2008 7:18:35 PM |
|
|
|
Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3049
|
you dont think I was saying anything neg. about you do you?
I think you have good boxers, Ive been in your shoes in certain ways and understand the way you do things more than you think possibly, If I thought something was wrong I wouldnt be thinking about the Boxer puppy to show from you.
I may not agree with the puggles but its not any of my biz either, theres only ONE to judge anyone and its sure the heck aint me. |
|
|
Pet Lovers Discussion Forum 
