| beaglebrat |
| Posted 3/1/2008 9:37:24 PM |
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Active: 05-01-2006
Posts: 842
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Looking at the site, I noticed that mainly the people who sell Puppies on AKC Limited Registration (No breeding rights, pets only, usually to be spay/neutered) are the people with the 'better dogs'. Those that at least health test for the problems prevalent in their breed.
So... those that have 'pet quality' breeding dogs and pet quality Puppies are the ones that just give AKC breeding rights to all their Puppies. not caring if they are bred or not.
BTW-- I am a breeder that does limited registration, I believe all pets should be spayed or neutered.
But then I think of the bigger picture. If it is mainly the poor quality Puppies that are given breeding rights, and the better quality Puppies are being spayed/neutered, then is it doing a service to the breed?
I mean, chances are that even the worst puppy in a champion sired litter from health tested parents are going to produce better, healthier Puppies than the BEST puppy from a 'pet parent' litter.
This is just a thought. |
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| ducktape |
| Posted 3/8/2008 3:05:26 AM |
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Active: 12-06-2007
Posts: 41
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Who really cares that dogs be perfect? No, I don't want a crappy Dog that is sick, or missing parts, or whatever. I don't think those dogs should make more. Breeders need to have common sense and not breed crap, but if it a fine Dog without problems more power to them. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 3/8/2008 5:36:40 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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 sorry but i have to tell you that you are sooo wrong on this one...you should see the disaster that is created in a show kennel...by trying to build the perfect dog...the perfect Dog is created by a breeder who year after year..line breeds over and over again, until they come up with the perfect LOOKING dog...it is an art to them...you should see the many many Puppies that suffer in the process of the creation...i know several of these breeders... example 1. a central florida show kennel...the entire kennel looks like clones..you could never choose a Dog and go back in and choose the same one again...they all look identical...i used to help place her "TRASH" as she called the ones who had issues..and they were georgous..but..by the age of 2, they had teeth rotting out, hips giving out, none of the males ever!! had testicals..
there were bad knees,blindness,hernias, and many many other horrific health issues...if i didnt take the trash..they were put to sleep...i quit doing this before the year was up as the people who did adopt from me..had massive vet bills and nothing but heartache!! one of these dogs still lives with my best girlfriend and has for about 9 years..he has done nothing but sit, stare, and shake for 9 years....pretty much brain dead..i know of another kennel in tennessee...this breeder breeds beautiful toy breeds...but...she has her dogs altered in order to show...she uses one name for ckc..and one name for akc...she competes illegally for the purpose of earning championships...why?? to push the price of her Puppies up to the ceiling...since everyone isnt in the market for a champion sired puppy that costs as much as a small car...she uses a different name to switch the registrations over to ckc...and sells to brokers for resale...the dogs that are shown...have silicone testicals, tatoo noses...crap...she even competes against herself for the point...so...you see...looks can be VERY!!! deceiving!!! if i hear i only breed to better the breed one more time i think ill scream unjustice!!! next post...
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| moggie |
| Posted 3/8/2008 5:51:58 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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 i wasnt finished...i am fully aware that there are honest breeders out there who show...so..please know i am not stereotyping..but there are far too many who do it out of greed!!! for some reason...these breeders sell their Puppies on limited registration with many health issues...you go on to say that they have testing done...yes some do..and once again...this is an excellent way to push the price of their Puppies up...how much easier is it to say omg i dont know what went wrong as the parents were tested...rather than not...there have been many many genetic nightmares comming out of TESTED stock....so...you see...the piece of paper behind the Dog isnt always what it seems to be..you say you are a breeder who limits all registrations because you think that noone should breed?? what makes you the only one who has the right to breed?? gee i must have read that wrong...do you show?? and if not?? how do you know that you have something worth breeding??
and how do you know that other registration companies dogs are not of breeding quality...since they did originate from akc anyway...i could go on and on...i have seen the big picture in its entirity...and it is what it is...the opinion you have formed is yours...but you should see behind the scenes...once again...let me say that i know that there are very hard working show breeders who do what they do with great integrity..but there are more that do not...take it from someone who knows that akc certainly has NOTHING to do with quality...testing is NOT a guarantee.....and looks are very deceiving!!! |
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| kathystone |
| Posted 3/8/2008 10:17:39 AM |
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Active: 11-18-2007
Posts: 116
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Just another day in the puppymill capital of the world. I have a 30 pound yorkie AKC registered and APRI registered! A beautiful 50 pound Cavalier a 4 pound Cavalier(yes FOUR POUND!) and several " havanese" that would scare you. These are some of the Christmas Overrun that did not sell at the pet shoips. They were returned to the broker adn dumped on the Dog auctions. Oh yes, several went to breeders for the next generation of misfits. In the mean time, Dog pounds shelters etc, throughout the US are over flowing AND puppy season is upon us. Is there a solution?YES!!! Reputable breeders are doing the right thing by spay neuter contracts. The less reputable ones will find home for their dogs BUT more and more states are passing Lemon laws re dogs. These laws, although sometimes a pain in the neck, present a challenge to the backyard breeder as they are going to be hit where trhey hate it, in the pocket book.So to the good breeders out there keep up the good work for those that are producing the dogs like those at the beginning of this column, SHAME! Eventually it will come back and bite you i n the nether most parts. |
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| moggie |
| Posted 3/8/2008 10:34:15 AM |
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Active: 09-01-2005
Posts: 410
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 you are right...i see you fully understand that akc has issued a registrations to you for dogs that in no way even fit the breed standard...and yes..good breeders are doing the right thing by demanding spay neuter contracts..but...you will not stop someone intending to breed...they will simply NOT honor their end of the contract and it cannot be inforced legally anyway...they will simply register with another club and keep on going and going...there is NO end to the madness....like with everything else on earth...there is good and bad in each and every situation...a good breeder wouldnt sell Puppies that would come back and bite them anyway...nor would they be breeding them...but as i said...there are many many losses in the quest of building the perfect dog...for each show quality dog..how many misfits are there to be tossed to the curb?? this is shameful and unforgivable!! |
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| ducktape |
| Posted 3/8/2008 3:33:30 PM |
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Active: 12-06-2007
Posts: 41
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kathystone...
What do you do? Do you work for a puppy auction place? Where do you live? Puppymill central? |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/11/2008 3:54:26 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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Heres my two cents that can change the more I think about this.
Most pet breeders now are charging more for full registration trying to make that extra buck, well most pet buyers are not going to pay that extra and any one that intends on breeding is going to want the very best puppy out of that. A smart less than reputable breeder I would think would limit the registration as so they dont have to compete with other bybs, the less there is of something after all the more its worth.
On this other side of things, rep breeders, rescues and general media has raised quite a bit of awareness on how to and not to buy a puppy, and have made a small dent in things. Spaying and neutering of pets is not as common as it should be but allot more common than it was. Most bybs find out that its allot of work and dont breed more than a litter of the larger breeds, exempting those that live off the sale of Puppies.
Its also getting harder to sell Puppies period, and as our economy continues to head down hill, more breeders will go under or quit breeding so much. Nothings worse for a less than rep. breeder than to have a half grown puppy they couldnt sell.
Its a step in the right direction but should have had more than one stone on the foot path. |
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| ShoobyTheDog |
| Posted 3/12/2008 9:57:11 PM |
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Active: 02-13-2008
Posts: 143
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| Quote ducktape: Who really cares that dogs be perfect? No, I don't want a crappy Dog that is sick, or missing parts, or whatever. I don't think those dogs should make more. Breeders need to have common sense and not... |
At least I would not care if I got a Dog that is missing body parts. |
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| ducktape |
| Posted 3/12/2008 10:23:55 PM |
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Active: 12-06-2007
Posts: 41
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Sorry, if I was misunderstood. I don't think screwed up dogs should be bred. |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/13/2008 7:00:55 AM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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| Quote ducktape: Sorry, if I was misunderstood. I don't think screwed up dogs should be bred. |
No one is saying they should thats normal anyway. |
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| staceystange |
| Posted 3/16/2008 11:37:18 AM |
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Active: 03-13-2008
Posts: 33
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Once again I am just so confused, I guess I will never understand this whole world of dogs and breeding! I am just not sure when the only people who should have dogs are those that are rich enough to afford $thousand $ Puppies. Nor do I know when the only dogs good enough are purebred show quailty. I always thought that dogs were peoples best friend and that little 3 year olds best friend, not just richy rich's best friend. Like I said in a previous post I don't understand this whole breeding thing. I bought Sparky (boxer) from what I guess is a byb, (didn't know that at the time, didn't even know anything about breeding till I came here), but my Dog is a happy healthy well adjusted puppy. I am so irratated by what many say are bad not good enough dogs, would u send your child to an adoption center or orphanage because you got pregnant and delievered a child with less than perfect attributes? I know I wouldn't, maybe there are people out in the world like me that just wanted a puppy to love like one of my children, to have come on family vaca's, play with the kids and hang out with me. I think it is disgusting how many only talk about how great there purebred show quailty is, and the rest of the dogs are "trash". Just love the for who they are! Sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am quite sick by this! |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 3/16/2008 3:22:43 PM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6666
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| Quote staceystange: Once again I am just so confused, I guess I will never understand this whole world of dogs and breeding! I am just not sure when the only people who should have dogs are those that are rich enough to afford... |
Dogs are being put to death in the US at six million a year. Children are not.
No not only the richest of rich should be allowed to breed, but it takes money to breed. Money to feed the dame right before and after she is bred. Money for vet care if she is injured during breeding. Money for whelping supplies before the Puppies come. Money for a c-section should your dame require it. Money for gruel and paper towels, blankets and puppy supples while you and the dame are raising them for eight weeks. Money for first puppy shots and wormings. Money for vet bills when one of the Puppies gets stepped on by the dame in the box or laid on. Money to fix a defect the puppy is born with. Money to care for a puppy when the person you sold it to brings it back to you after six months because they can't house train it or they don't have time for it or they didn't train it so now it jumps and bites or they're going to have a baby and their mother in law says "Get rid of that dog". To name a few things off the top of my head. |
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| staceystange |
| Posted 3/16/2008 3:31:53 PM |
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Active: 03-13-2008
Posts: 33
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Mao, I am a little lost now, I don't think I was asking why the only people who should breed is those with money, it was why should people with money be the only allowed to have purebreds and why mixed breeds seem to be "trash". I recently bought Sparky from a breeder, like I said new to this whole world. She is most likely a byb from what I have learned here. But I like u mentioned have kids, my puppy nips there fingers and eats there toys, the same as he nips me and my husband, but I know that his training is my resp. I know have a slight grasp on the diff between breeders and understand that byb dogs can have issues which I am financiall able to handle, but wasn't able to spend upwards of 1k or more. I tried to adopt from our shelter and when I called the lady asked if I had kids and said it is against our policy to adopt out animals to families with kids under 12. SO I was faced with the option of waiting 9 more years or buying. |
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| MaryAndDobes |
| Posted 3/16/2008 4:28:39 PM |
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Active: 06-01-2005
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Stacey, it's really not fair to compare children with disabilities to dogs that may be defective. Unfortunately, society as a whole dumps their problem dogs in huge numbers - that's why some estimate that there are 12 million unwanted pets being euthanized annually in north America.
It's just not acceptable anymore for *anyone* to be breeding dogs. That's what has gotten us to this place now and it's really unacceptable. There should be standards in place. Responsible breeders try to improve their breed (conformation, health, temperament, longevity, working ability, etc). They breed for a reason. Responsible breeders also stand by what they've bred, and will take back any of their Puppies.dogs in the future if they can't be kept. They also try to screen homes to the best of their ability to make sure the home is a good fit for the puppy, and that the puppy is a good fit for the home. Again, look at what is going on out there with the numbers being dumped at the pounds and the shelters. The bad apples have ruined it for the good apples.
Various states are enacting puppy "lemon laws" and making breeders be accountable for what they produce, and good for them.
No one is saying that any dogs are trash, just that every Dog is not breeding quality. The problem is that the average joe doesn't know the difference and doesn't bother to even try to find out the difference.
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| staceystange |
| Posted 3/16/2008 4:55:49 PM |
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Active: 03-13-2008
Posts: 33
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Like I said before my question was not about who has the right to breed! |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 3/16/2008 5:52:26 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
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| Quote staceystange: Once again I am just so confused, I guess I will never understand this whole world of dogs and breeding! I am just not sure when the only people who should have dogs are those that are rich enough to afford... |
I probally have the least income here on the forum, we have what we need and finally some money saved, yet I have this awesome show Dog that sleeps at the foot of my bed every night.
People dont have to be rich to own a good dog, however they should have enough income to take care of what they have, and thats more so in the middle class area, not to say I dont help a few people that didnt have allot of money that had allot of love feed pets they have adopted from me.
In an ideal world, there should be no shelters, rescues or millions of unwanted pets to die every year. That puppy at the shelter you wanted was there due to some one not taking responsiblity and having its parents speuterd, if that puppie died it is the owner of the parents to the pups fault and their fault alone. IF you google pure bred rescues or jump on pet finder you will see many pure breds without a home, its both the breeders and the owners fault at that point.
Reputable breeders dont put more in this world than they have homes for that are good homes, if every one cared as much then shelters and rescues would be a thing of the past.
Reputable breeders also spueter the pet quality which is another great way to elimiate opps litters.
So what if you have to save alittle bit if you want a good puppy, the cheapest thing about having a pet is the buying part.
Google borntodiepets and just more litter and those will impact you in a way you wont believe.
I also want to state that you shouldnt take things personally here, its really hard to tell tones in writting, some of the regulars can come off alittle colder than others, by far we are not perfect, and Im not even well liked around here, because I had the same kinda track of mind when I first started here, I just didnt get "it". |
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| lifeofoscar |
| Posted 3/16/2008 6:05:39 PM |
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Active: 03-16-2008
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I have to say that you guys all crack me up! I'm a dog. I'm not pure-bred but my people love me anyway. I did come from a place that bred dogs and it was OK but I like where I live now best. I have neighbors who are pure-bred and some of them are stuck on themselves. I prefer dogs who don't think they're "all that". The way I see it, we're all put on earth for a reason. I'm completely happy with my home and who I am. There's nothing better than that! |
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| staceystange |
| Posted 3/16/2008 6:23:01 PM |
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Active: 03-13-2008
Posts: 33
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Life,
I like your response!
Naturaldane-
I'm not really concerned about if ppl like me, I am just here to learn more and understand this new world. I am not taking things personally, I am just simply restating my question seeing as how it was misconstrued twice. I am not trying to be a B***H, I am just irritated by things that I have read. I guess to much info can sometimes be a bad thing! LOL. It's not that I can not afford a "show Quality" it's just that I have to be realistic to my families lifestyle and needs and spending that amount of money is not something my husband and I are or prepared to do. I believe I have gotten my answer. I hope my next post isn't as offensive or b***hy as this came across. |
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 3/16/2008 6:42:06 PM |
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Forum Moderator
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6666
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| Quote staceystange: Mao, I am a little lost now, I don't think I was asking why the only people who should breed is those with money, it was why should people with money be the only allowed to have purebreds and why mixed... |
Ok, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. Your asking why a pure bred Dog has to cost so much.
Honestly I don't think most dogs being sold today at todays prices are worth the money people are paying. Nor do I believe that they need to cost as much as they do. It costs money to breed, raise, test and show dogs. That is true. Those who are breeding, if you are always striving to produce the best, you make your money on the few dogs that do get their Championship titles, when you sell their sperm or the show Puppies from their litters.
Many breeders are padding their pockets with inflated prices on PET quality Puppies. IN MY OPINION.
It is also my opinion that the breeders who are demanding high prices for every Dog they produce, inspite of its indivdual quality, are in part encouraging BYB'ing both by those who see the prices and think "I want that money" and by those who see the prices and say "I'll breed my Dog and sell the Puppies cheaper so more people can have one".
There are no easy answers to todays problems in the Dog world. I don't know how to fix every problem. Nor am I laying all Dog problems at the door of good breeders.
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