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diabetic dog |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/21/2008 11:43:08 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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looking for information for help with Dog with diabetes, she is 12, all other blood work and tests are perfect, insulin is over 686, we want to treat her naturally and do what is best for her. |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 2/21/2008 2:51:24 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3359
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what had you been feeding her?
I would assume she is on prescription food now.
dog's glucose is the same as human's & 686 is dead.
is she extremely overweight? |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/21/2008 3:39:50 PM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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she has lost 13 pounds, she was never overweight just solid, she is down to 19 lbs. my vet did not seem concerned that it was that high, other than we need to bring it down. all of her other tests are perfect, liver and kidney function. She is hardly eating anything, as she was constipated from the medication to stop her from throwing up. We did an enema on her last night and at least she is holding water down today. She has turned to a very picky eater. We have been pushing IV fluids under the skin twice a day to keep her from dehydrating. We are being very cautious on what we are offering her food wise. Today is the first day that we are going to start trying to get her to hold foods, Our vet wanted to get her bowels to move and try to get her tummy settled, We are going to give her pedelyte by syringe as. Well. I just don't know what we should do. We took her in last night to get the vets opinon, we were actually discussing putting her down, but he honestly felt if we could get her bowels to move, it would help her hold food down, today has been a much better day for her, we are going very slow with water and will introduce solids again tonight. What can I feed her to make her want to eat? We are wanting to try some herbal drugs on her that will be here tomorrow. we live in such a rural area, and our vet is very limited on what he can do in office, most things we have to dry 75 miles for immediate answers and drugs. |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 2/21/2008 11:09:49 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3359
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there is something very wrong here. a dogs glucose level should be between 80 & 120 the same as a humans. I was serious when I said 686 was dead.
if she has lost 13# & now only weighs 19, she was very overweight. did you intend for her to loose all that?
you are giving her sub - Q fluids, IV fluids are in the vein.
why are you being very cautious about what you are feeding her? what are you limiting her to?
did the enema work? if she hasn't eaten for a long time, she would have nothing to poop. canned pumpkin will help with constipation or with diarrhea |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/22/2008 8:58:57 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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The whole thing seems absolutely crazy and scary and confusing for me.
She could have stood to loose a few pounds, but she really wasn't overweight. No rolls or nothing, she was a very active and full of life dog.
We moved in November and worried how the stress of the move would be for her. She is very much keep things the same and lets not change them type of dog. We have always been good to only feed her Dog food and Dog treats. Her only real people food treat she has had in 12 years is popcorn, Don't get me wrong, if it hits the floor or you leave a plate where she can get it, it will be hers if you aren't careful. But to feed her from the table we never had, She might occasionally get left over scrambled eggs but that was it. In December she went through a spell of vomiting for a few days, and I took her into our local vet. Like I said we are in a rural location and our immediate options are limited. He gave her some shots and sent us home with medicine for her, treating her for a stomach virus. Along in January she started vomiting again and I had noticed that she had lost a little weight. We took her back in and he did the same regimen, Here two weeks ago, it started again, so back to the vet went. He did the same routine with her and said he thought she was having some issues with her teeth and gums, and recommended us giving her an antibotic to get the infection cleared up and we would schedule her for a teeth cleaning and to pull some. Four days later it started again, not keeping anything down but some water. So last Friday I took her to a major pet clinic to see if she was diabetic, was my guess, as now you could definately tell she had lost weight, and my vet wanted her xrayed to see if she had any growths or anything abnormal inside.
The vet I took her to was very nice, very informative. When she came in with her blood work she was very pleased that it looked good, liver functions, kidney functions, blood counts, cholestral, but she their machine stops at 686 and it was still going when it stoped, she also said from the xrays it showed that she had not had a good bowel movement in a while, which she felt was from the medication our vet was giving her to help with the vomiting. |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/22/2008 9:04:44 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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We discussed our options, and she said that we had plenty of time to decide which option we wanted to do with her, which confused me as I thought 686 was horrible, she said she was more concerned with getting her bowels to move and getting her to eat, because she had now turned into a "I am not eating anything dog" She said that if she had not had a good bowel movement by Tuesday we needed to do something. it could be one reason she was not holding food down. She recommended fiber; we worked on her all weekend catering to her, making her eggs, boiled ground pork, just whatever to get her medicine in her. Finally on Wed, we made the appointment to have her put down at. Our regular vet examined her and said that he honestly felt that if we could get her bowels to move that we would see a big improvement. That he wanted us to push 150 cc IV fluids under the skin twice a day, to help with the dehydration, as now she was not keeping water down. He honestly said her vitals where all good, good strong hear beat, lungs good, ???? Her meds are supposed to be her today, we went home and did an enema for the second time, the first time we must not have used enough, because we had success! Yesterday although thin, she seems close to her normal self, wanting to play in the snow and ice, she is drinking water, which is offered in small amounts to not overwhelm her empty stomach, although upon trips out side with sleet, snow and freezing rain, she wants out more often to get un unscheduled drink, we are offering about 1/4 cup every 15 -30 minutes when she is up and around, we boiled chicken for her last night and offered her small amounts, a tablespoon or two with two green beans about every hour, and she ate, and even wanted to be in the kitchen at supper, as she might miss something, this morning she was waiting for breakfast when I got ready to leave, we are giving her pedilyte mixed with water, which worries me as it has sugar in it |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/22/2008 9:05:46 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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What type of Dog food can I feed her that will not cause her sugar to go up. My vet is an older vet, and I know he isn't up on alot of the new ways, thats why I am doing as much research as I can. I know she is 12, but with no other health issues, I think we can do this. If the extremely high levels haven't lost her yet, I know we can. Her eyesight is all still good; she caught a piece of chicken in the air last night, which there again amazes me.
Any help is greatly appreciated. You mentioned hills science diet, wet or dry, tell me the brand and if I have to take of work early in the middle of an ice storm I will find it before I go home for her. My kids are with her today and will be offering her water and chicken throughout the day, to not over whelm her system.
She looks and acts so much better.
Thanks so much
sorry for such a long post. I just want to do my best for this old girl, she is so much part of the family. |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 2/22/2008 6:07:14 PM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3099
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by no means am i a vet but through the things i have experienced in the past few years, I would have to suggest a diet with no grains at all, dogs dont need them and is the main thing that will drive sugar up. Corn is the largest culprit.
I doubt at this dogs age a raw diet would be the safest thing to try with her having the issues that she does, if it was just the diabetes then I would say go for it but with the other issues maybe try a solid meat based diet like innova that has nothing but meat in it. the less grain based food the better, even if you make the food and do cooked turkey with whole egg in it that would be better than most, no rice just meat. |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/23/2008 9:46:42 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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Thank you. She is acting considerable better today. So far no more vomitting and she is getting fed small portions every 2 -3 hours, of boiled chicken. she is drinking water w/ pedilyte, and not as much as she was, we have backed of the under th skin fluids to once a day, if we feel she needs them. Her tummy looks fuller, not sunken in. we start her meds yesterday, and she is sleeping alot, which is normal for her, but she now seems to be resting comfortable when she sleeps. Our vet is very impressed with her turn around since he say her own Wed. I know being 12 we are going to loose her someday, but I don't want her suffering when she goes. All they found wrong was her glucose levels, crazy, I still don't understand how it is possible to be that high. I am going to order some urine strips to check her from time to time and see what it says, we are going to see how it goes. We always try to feed a meat based feed, if it has corn or wheat in the first 3 or 4 ingrediants we nix it. I bought her Iams Lamb and rice the other night, but am on my way to find some hill's science diet. I hear there is a brand for diabetic dogs ???
Any other suggestions for food would be great, what about green beens, brocoli, brussel sprouts, i would think corn and carrots would be bad for her ??? |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 2/23/2008 11:04:39 AM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3099
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science diet is as bad as old roy when i say no veggies and grains thats what it needs to have none of, it makes human levels and Dog levels of sugar go up, we as humans need some source of those things in our diet but our pets do not, look at her teeth for example, the pack ones do they look like ours? no because they are designed to eat meat only diets, ripping and crunching as for ours, we are like cows and deer made to grind our foods.
On another side note, both brands you have mentioned have been tested positive for the drug they put pets to sleep with.
if you have a kroger food store near you you can get a brand called brandon farms, the canned stuff is awesome, but the kibble is holistic but has fruit and things in it its cheaper than the innova. Even if the Dog isnt sick dogs and cats in general greatly bennifit from a non grain diet. |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 2/23/2008 8:23:58 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3359
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I would suggest you call the vet that gave you the 686 glucose reading & ask if that is correct. I think there is a misunderstanding there.
I have asked you what you were feeding her so I could look at the ingredients & make some suggestions.
I also noticed that apparently you are giving her cooked chicken with the bones. that is not a good idea. while dogs can have certain chicken bones they should be raw.
the SD food that is for diabetic dogs is prescription food & SD is not a particularly good food, neither is Iams.
here is the SD for diabetes:
Ingredients
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose 17.1% (source of fiber), Chicken by-product Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Mill Run, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Oil, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Meal, Iron Oxide, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), preserved with BHT, BHA and Ethoxyquin, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, L-Carnitine, L-Tryptophan, Beta-Carotene.
ground corn means the cob was ground up with the grain. corn is a known allergen to dogs & is fed to put weight ON animals! soy = another allergen. powedered cellulose = wood shavings. BHA, BHT & ethoxyquin have been outlawed in Europe because of their link to cancer
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| maoseger1010 |
| Posted 2/24/2008 8:54:09 AM |
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Forum Moderator
 
Active: 02-20-2005
Posts: 6720
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Diet alone may not control your dogs sugar level. What meds are you giving her? How often are you checking her sugar level? |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/24/2008 11:07:46 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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I boiled her plain chicken breast, no skin no bones, no additives to the water. The I ams I feed her is Lamb and Rice, but I am not even giving her that now, just chicken, and water.
I have urine strips ordered to test her. I know the 686 sounds unreal, but the vet gave me a copy of her blood work and it shows levels greater than 686. So ????
I ordered her a herbal liquid "mellet" she has had 5 does of it, Her nose is wet, she is acting MUCH better! Not drinking alot of water 3/4 the amount that she was three days ago, she even got her toys out this morning. I just want to be sure and feed her correctly and not make it go back up. Like I said, we are in a very rural area, so I have to order most things online or have my vet get it for me. My husband went to a big city yesterday and was looking for different foods |
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| emlee3 |
| Posted 2/24/2008 4:58:14 PM |
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Active: 02-11-2006
Posts: 2084
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Quote ladybug2006: I boiled her plain chicken breast, no skin no bones, no additives to the water. The I ams I feed her is Lamb and Rice, but I am not even giving her that now, just chicken, and water.
I have urine... |
It is common for a Dog with diabetes to have over 600.
"The normal level of glucose in the blood is 80-120 mg/dl (4.4-6.6 mmol/L). It may rise to 250-300 mg/dl (13.6-16.5 mmol/L) following a meal. Diabetes is the only common disease that will cause the blood glucose level to rise above 400 mg/dl (22 mmol/L). Some diabetic dogs will have a glucose level as high as 800 mg/dl (44 mmol/L), although most will be in the range of 400-600 mg/dl (22-33 mmol/L)."
http://www.sniksnak.com/doghealth/diabetes-mellitus.html
Your vet probably took your dog's blood sugar after a meal.
I suggest feeding your Dog a high protein, low carb and low fat diet.
From what i read, diabetes can lead to pancreatitis, so feeding your Dog moderate to low amounts of fat is recommended. Also, feed your Dog about 4 small meals a day rather than 2 large meals. frequent meals will keep your dog's blood sugar from rising too quickly. I've also heard feeding a diet that is high in fiber..which is why most vets recommend a hills prescription food that caters to diabetic dogs (i believe its higher in fiber than most of the Dog foods out there). i would NOT feed your Dog the presciptive diet but rather feed your Dog pureed pumpkin.
if you are doing a homemade diet than you need to add some form of calcium. ground up egg shells or raw chicken bones would do justice. if you don't want to do raw than do the egg shells or you can use a pressure cooker to cook chicken bones.
if you want more information check this website out.
http://www.petdiabetes.com/ |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 2/24/2008 9:17:24 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3359
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that's interesting emlee, since I had just had this conversation about 2 weeks ago with my vet, I went a-lookin'. I figured perhaps he just gave me the numbers of 80 to 120 the same as people because Austins was 94 & no concern.
I checked all the sites I could find & the only one I could find any numbers on were the same as people.
now I have a lot of respect for what you say & know that you are usually right on target. I'm not by any means saying you are wrong now but am curious as to where you lifted that from.
I'm glad to hear the chicken was skinless/boneless  but I would start mixing it with rice until you get a diet for her.
look for Dr. Pitcarin's site, or holistic care of a diabetic Dog & everything inbetween |
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| emlee3 |
| Posted 2/24/2008 11:16:26 PM |
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Active: 02-11-2006
Posts: 2084
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| Quote suebgone: that's interesting emlee, since I had just had this conversation about 2 weeks ago with my vet, I went a-lookin'. I figured perhaps he just gave me the numbers of 80 to 120 the same as people because... |
i thought the same as you..when i saw the number i had to do a double take.
I had to do a lot of digging up to see whether or not if the number was correct. I went to a pet nutrition forum and saw another person who had a Dog with a blood sugar of 600.
I browsed around the internet until i found this website, which i took the quote:
sniksnak.com
i guess we learn something new everyday. The website doesn't really explain how a Dog or cat can get up to 600 or even 800. i'm assuming because dogs and cats are mostly carnivours the blood sugar can rise very quickly at high numbers if fed a diet that is high in carbohydrate. Cats are more vulnerable to hyperglycemia/type 2 diabetes than dogs..simply because cats are true carnivours.
if you talk to the vet again i would love to hear a scientific detail of how cats/dogs can have a blood sugar over 600.
edited maoseger1010 |
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| CannonFarms |
| Posted 2/25/2008 11:25:43 AM |
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Active: 08-13-2006
Posts: 3099
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http://rawfed.com/myths/carbs.html
this may help you understand dogs blood sugar levels better. |
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/25/2008 4:05:30 PM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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I can's say thank you enough for all your help.
I am a very animal person, and usually very knowledgeable on what I am treating and what I need to do. I keep looking at the print out the vet gave me and keep question how it could be so high. It was actually tested on an empty stomach, She might have had some dry food the night before, but at this point she was holding very little down. Do you think adding rice to her diet will be okay. I don;t mind cooking a diet for her at all, if that is what it takes to have her around a few more years and for her to have a quality of life that is not a problem. She is definatley getting very spoiled during this whole ordeal, as she gets treats (cubed boiled chicken) with her Mellit spelled it wrong earlier, and if we do sub q fluids on her, I tried mixing some dry food, lamb and rice with her chicken, she picked every piece out and left them on the kitchen floor! My vet is good with simple stuff, and more than willing to teach me what ever I need to to take care of her at home.
Will the uranalysis strips be accurate reading for her? She didn't even drink one bowl of water yesterday! I was so shocked, and her nose was some what damp. I can't believe how much these quys become our family, My parents, my husbands mom and grandmat, and two of our friends call almost every day to see how she is. I will check those websites out and see what else I can find. Thanks guys. She is acting so much better, not perfect but better. I want to say the mellit is working but you never know! |
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| suebgone |
| Posted 2/25/2008 8:21:40 PM |
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Active: 01-10-2006
Posts: 3359
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I don't know anything about the strips. I would have just gotten the little glucomoter to do the blood test.
if she had those kinds of numbers after fasting hmmm well thats not good.
you've got to give her more than just the chicken, that's why I suggested the rice. I would at least do that until you can find an appropriate diet. yes fiber is needed - you can visit the health food store or just get a fiber cereal at the grocerstore that has no additives at all.
did your vet not put her on any insulin?
google "diabetic Dog diet" there's a lot there
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| ladybug2006 |
| Posted 2/26/2008 7:54:11 AM |
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Active: 04-28-2006
Posts: 20
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The vet said we could do insulin, that it would require shots every 12 hours for the rest of her life and that we would have to bring her in once a month, leave her all day, and they would test her levels every two hours, this alone would totally stress her out, as she does not do well when we leave her somewhere, If we leave for the weekend, or week, my dad will wait until we have been gone about an hour, as Lily just thinks we are coming back, and he will go to our house and ger her and take her to his, and she is just fine, if we take her and leave her, she will leave every suprise in the book in two minutes, pee, poop, and vomit, She is such a silly puppy! So we didn't know if we wanted to do that or not. I don't think she could handle it, unless one of us was able to stay all day with her. We opted not to try the insilin as our schedules are very busy and once we start we cant stop, and we wouldn't want to really mess her up, and we didn't want to give her shots twice a day. I found this Mellit and it really seems to be working, she gets 1 drop for every pound, she has no option, it is absorbed almost as quick as it hits her tongue, her coat is starting to shine again, she looks like she might, very little might, be gaining a little back, she lost way to much, I would like to see her at 25 lbs I think she would look good, right now you can see her back bone and her ribs. She even attacked (play) my daughter last night. |
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