Keeshond Question

What is the difference between vet cert. hips and OFA eval on this breed?

    In Keeshond - Asked by Anonymous - 12/1/2012 9:28:46 AM
I have been raising Keeshonds since 1982 and have never heard of vet certified hips. Sure I can imagine a vet can examine an animal a state they look ok but unless you have an actual xray done there is no other way to see when that hip joint placement is, whether there is laxicity in that joint. Patellas are done by an examination by a vet but never hips. Eyes are done by a board certified canine opth, and unless this is done how do you know if your dog has PRA? Xrays are also done of elbows there is no other way to see where that joint also lies. PHPT testing is very important in this breed. Don't be fooled by fancy websites or people claiming there dogs are healthy ask for hard proof.
    Answered by Anonymous - 12/4/2012 4:09:22 PM

The difference is one is a real evaluation (OFA) and the other (Vet Certified) is a scam breeders are using to lie about the health of their dogs. The only way a dog can be screened for Hip Dysplasia is by having an x-ray taken and the vet then sending it off to OFA to be evaluated and scored. The results will be posted on the OFA board under the registered name of the dog. You can go to and do a search by the dog’s registered name; all health testing that has been completed will be listed under the dog’s name. If a breeder claims any health testing and the dogs are not listed on this board I would question the ethics of said breeder. If a breeder is lying about health screening be very concerned about the real health of the dogs/puppies they are selling.
    Answered by erbekees - 12/4/2012 4:21:46 PM

Any reputable breeder should have at least done at minimum Penn Hip eval or OFA hip xrays, Penn Hip method takes 3 films they measure the actual laxicity and look for signs of DJD plus more OFA can give a rating of fair, good or excellent which tells you that the hips are placed.Without either of these films there is NO WAY to tell if the hips are alligned or if there is dysplasia present. At minimum also PHPT should be done and parents should be tested Neg, or Neg by descent. Good breeders will also do OFA Patellas, ( The trick knees), OFA Elbows ( this is also a xray), OFA Thyroid study, OFA Cardiac, and eyes should be tested for congenital eye diseaseand CERF. So many things go into account for a healthy puppy, some sell for the same price of a good breeder but those who do not do the testing are in this to make a buck not for the breed. Look closely at the breeder ask for hard proof these tests are performed Thank you Clingmey
    Answered by cyndiros - 12/5/2012 7:39:15 PM

Vet certified hips means a licensed, board certified Vet has x-rayed and very carefully evaluated those x-rays to determine the dogs knees, hips and elbow structures to be sound and tight before giving the breeder the go ahead to breed the dog. This is done by a Vet who is highly trained, with many years experience , and in at least one case also being an AKC Conformation Instructor as well as the primary caregiver to many Westminster winning dogs from some of the top breeders in the country. For a breed they claim needs so much testing, the imported dogs also consistently test free of these supposedly common diseases and disorders that they want you to be scared other breeders are ignoring. Buy what you want at the price you want to pay, just don't buy from a Pet Store because that is where the breeders who truly do not care for or about their dogs sell their puppies since there is no accountability on their part.
    Answered by Anonymous - 1/15/2013 5:53:04 AM

Unless the vet is a specialized orthopedic vet and is able to give you a factual reading on the hips/elbows then no you are not correct in your assumption, think about it its just like humans you have a heart condition who do you go to your GP or do you see a cardiologist? Same with bones,joints etc.You would see a orthopedic MD, regular class vets can do the films that are needed and give you an assumption but that is what it is just an assumption and then those films are needed to be sent to a canine orthopedic vet to do the actual evaluation, hence the reason for OFFA or PENN HIP studies. Same with eyes you as a person see a opth. canines also see a canine opth.Thats why there is CERF.. Reg vets can draw the blood for thyroid studies but you would see an endocrinologist , OFA has certain standards to be met before breeding, these are the actual guidelines breeders use
    Answered by Anonymous - 2/2/2013 2:31:58 PM

I do know which dog anon is referring to, she had asked me about my dog as she was buying a dog who came from the same breeder. her female and my dog do have the same sire does not constitute good health, the breeder I got him from did zero health testing, I tested this dog prior to breeding. to compare, rely on my results is not a good idea, they do not have the same dam, just because my dog is heath tested good does not guarantee any other puppy born from those parents are as healthy as he is.visit board search out the keeshond for testing to be done. We as responsible breeders are trying to keep this breed healthy and weed out things like phpt (which btw) is breed specific. my vet didnt know of phpt, I brought it to her attention from the research Cornell University had done where they were able to locate this genetic marker for this breed. It is better to be informed and know what you are talking about than to ever assume
    Answered by cyndiros - 2/2/2013 3:31:45 PM

Radiographs of animals 24 months of age or older are independently evaluated by three randomly selected, board-certified veterinary radiologists from a pool of 20 to 25 consulting radiologists throughout the USA in private practice and academia. Each radiologist evaluates the animal's hip status considering the breed, sex, and age. There are approximately 9 different anatomic areas of the hip that are evaluated.
    Answered by cyndiros - 2/4/2013 11:09:54 AM

The radiologist is concerned with deviations in these structures from the breed normal. Congruency and confluence of the hip joint (degree of fit) are also considered which dictate the conformation differences within normal when there is an absence of radiographic findings consistent with HD. The radiologist will grade the hips with one of seven different physical (phenotypic) hip conformations: normal which includes excellent, good, or fair classifications, borderline or dysplastic which includes mild, moderate, or severe classifications
    Answered by cyndiros - 2/4/2013 11:11:40 AM

You are right on ANON!!!! A canine radiologist reads the films for OFA those results are given to your primary vet to discuss with the client. So many people are misguided so happy to see someone else out there understands the importance of health screening.
    Answered by cyndiros - 2/4/2013 12:11:35 PM

Health testing on a dog of any breed has nothing to do with being a conformation instructor, a conf inst teaches handling a dog for the show ring, how and when to bait a dog, how to stack a dog etc. Westminster has nothing to do with health screening either, and an FYI Kees tested nationally and out of the USA can be found on and the international board
    Answered by cyndiros - 2/4/2013 1:07:16 PM